OHL 47 TX
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[00:00:00] Kaisha: All right. It's Thursday at 4:20 PM Eastern. That means it's time for office hours. AROYA's weekly session for cultivators to hear from the experts and talk to each other about what they're seeing with their grows. My name is Kaisha. I'll be your co-moderator today and I don't do it alone. How's it going, Mandy?

[00:00:17] Mandy: Hey, Kaisha. Wow. Can you guys believe it? We're already on episode 40, 47. It was two weeks off. I really miss this. So we're live here and we're also going live over on YouTube. So wherever you're tuning in from, make sure you [00:00:30] send us your questions and I'll make sure I get those over to the team. One quick announcement before we get started today.

[00:00:35] Mandy: If you're gonna be at the Emerald Cup, be sure you catch up with Kaisha. She'll be representing AROYA out there. And we do have a very special guest grower on today's show. And for that formal introduction, I'm gonna throw it back over

[00:00:46] Kaisha: to Kaisha. Awesome. Thank you Mandy. And yes, I'll be at Emerald Cup, as will Seth, my good friend Seth, tell us who we have in the building, as it were today.

[00:00:54] Seth: We got Mikey here. Mikey Giersch. He's the, do you call yourself the head grower, cultivator [00:01:00] manager,

[00:01:00] Michael: Jack of all? So the growth systems manager. We have a head cultivator that's just above me. He's a very busy guy, but he did actually jump on the chat today. But I, our growth systems manager and the head of the litigation IPM department as well as anything you know, equipment related on the floor that deals with the plants themselves.

[00:01:17] Seth: Absolutely. And that's I guess part of why we got to start talking, it's fun to look at the graphs and start spotting when things start going wrong. And I get to hear from Mikey, how'd you guys solve that out in the desert? And that's always interesting. It's great,

[00:01:29] Michael: you [00:01:30] know, getting together and talk and shop for it to try to correlate, you know, what we're dealing with here to what you guys are experiencing personally and with other

[00:01:37] Seth: clients.

[00:01:39] Seth: Oh yeah, absolutely. And just, you know, having that insight and being able to look into don't know, your facility doesn't really, I guess I don't see anything that usually doesn't surprise you ever . It's more, you know, like, Hey, that's what that looks like on the graph there. But it's fun to solve those problems and see what's out there.

[00:01:56] Seth: I know you've spent a lot of time dialing your place, you know, really getting it [00:02:00] dialed in pretty tightly, especially considering, you know, the temperature swings that you experience out in the desert there. Like we were

[00:02:04] Michael: bating around a minute ago. We go from, you know, 120 plus in the summers to, you know, the low forties and high thirties during the winter seasons.

[00:02:13] Michael: So we have quite a bit of a vast change there to, to deal with. , especially keeping up with our ACS during the summer seasons is pretty rough challenge.

[00:02:21] Seth: Oh yeah. Absolutely. I guess while we're at it though, it's kind of start, what's your background? How'd you get into growing?

[00:02:25] Michael: I've been growing, I mean, since I was a teenager, it's call it the family business

[00:02:29] Michael: [00:02:30] And then I just applied and applied and pushed until I could get into corporate grow. I started out with the guys at Mohave Cannabis. . I was with them for a few years and was fortunate enough to work with a lot of great growers and awesome people with that company. And then as vertical came into the landscape, I transitioned over here for a little bit more room for advancement.

[00:02:48] Michael: Been with vertical a little over four years now, working my way uphill. Spent a lot of long time as a bud tender and patient to patient grower doing 30 liters and stuff like that prior to getting into [00:03:00] commercial cultivation.

[00:03:01] Seth: Yeah. So you've seen it all basically , that's definitely rockwool

[00:03:06] Michael: aons, flood tables full of silicon pellets,

[00:03:08] Seth: Oh yeah. You know, you kind gotta try it all to figure out what works at some point, you know, that's no one arrives straight at rockwool and Cocoa right off the bat. You know, we had to start with soil hydroponics, all that fun stuff. How do you think the industry is changing, you know, right now, like versus a year ago?

[00:03:24] Seth: Cause we went through, you know, kind of a huge push, like when you first started growing, it might have either been in the ground or in. [00:03:30] Pretty big pots, I'm assuming, you know? Yeah. Back in the day, 10,

[00:03:33] Michael: 15 gallon pots, you know, getting these five foot tall plants before you flip 'em, you know, trying to get as much mass as

[00:03:39] Seth: possible.

[00:03:40] Seth: Yep, exactly. And then now, I mean, it's totally different, right? Like we're looking at small plants, small containers moving up to the slabs over the years, that was like a huge thing. I think that's revolutionized the indoor game for a lot of people. Even compared to the Hugos, just the amount of plant you can get off of a slab efficiently and easily is pretty impressive.

[00:03:59] Michael: Yeah. [00:04:00] A lot of the guys I talked to run the slabs now are just they're flipping plants at, you know, 11 to 13 inches instead of 18 to 24 and running 50 to 75% more plants generating, you know, 20 to 24 inch tall plants at the end of life to just cut the difference in plant volume, size versus number of plants in the room,

[00:04:18] Seth: you know?

[00:04:19] Seth: Right. And that's a huge thing I've noticed lately is, you know, people are finally embracing going to a little bit smaller plant size, trying to go to a, you know, a lower pruning technique that gives you a little more mass on the plant, but also, I [00:04:30] mean, that time in there trying to mess with it is brutal.

[00:04:33] Michael: Yeah. The plant maintenance cuts down so much. That's the ease on your team is the biggest factor that comes in with that, with minimizing your

[00:04:39] Seth: plant size. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, labor's like one of the biggest costs because it's so variable, right? Like we can kind of count on power prices roughly within a month.

[00:04:49] Seth: We can count on water. If our labor's all over the place month to month, that, that makes it pretty tough. You know, one, one emergency can add a lot of labor cost and thankfully

[00:04:59] Michael: We're in a world [00:05:00] now where we have all the appropriate equipment where we can start actually accessing and analyzing the data and, you know, quantifying what we're doing.

[00:05:07] Michael: So we can say, grow wedding cake that isn't seven feet tall. . Right,

[00:05:11] Seth: exactly. Yep. And, you know, having a recipe to stick to, you know, especially in terms of irrigation that you can execute day after day. I know one huge thing that I've noticed that's been pretty cool compared to talking to, you know, well I'm just bagging the day, knowing a lot of people trap growing and stuff.

[00:05:25] Seth: Especially kinda out in sticks, power outages, you [00:05:30] know, you can grow in facilities now where you can pull off a whole run without, you know, any power. Maybe you got some internet interruption, but your equipment's reliable.

[00:05:38] Michael: Yeah. The infrastructure improvements over the last decade have been phenomenal in Southern California.

[00:05:42] Michael: I mean, 10 years ago we were looking at three day long power outages out here in the Mojave. Right. We were lucky if you were able to keep some of your food. You know, it's at

[00:05:52] Seth: night. Yeah, exactly. You're like, don't open the

[00:05:55] Michael: freezer. don't for the, don't open the doors. It's hotter outside. . [00:06:00]

[00:06:01] Kaisha: Actually, Michael, I have a question.

[00:06:02] Kaisha: Can you describe your facility? What's it like?

[00:06:04] Michael: So we have two separate grow buildings on the property out here in Needles. We have two story where we run LEDs across the entire building, and then we have a single story building with an additional nine flower rooms and two bedrooms who are running doula in thousand watts.

[00:06:17] Michael: Gotta keep that old industry feel in there. Still gotta have that high yield production from that far red light .

[00:06:24] Seth: Oh, there's nothing wrong with that .

[00:06:27] It

[00:06:27] Michael: just, it feels too good to let go of. Yeah, we, I mean [00:06:30] the LEDs are wonderful and two-thirds of our property is transitioned to LED across the board.

[00:06:34] Michael: But there's something about those high pressure sodium lights they just can't let go of yet. . Oh

[00:06:39] Seth: yeah. They're a little different. And I mean, I dunno, the biggest downside I've seen out of those over the years, it depends on where you're, you know, obviously the heat, but like, you know, where I'm at in the winter that's pretty welcome

[00:06:49] Seth: But, you know, just the ease of use and they've been around, you know, that are not expensive. And in the world of LEDs too, I find sometimes it's everything's so competitive. There's always new tech coming out. [00:07:00] At a certain point it's like, what's adequate versus what's the pinnacle?

[00:07:04] Seth: Cuz there's always gonna be a shifting pinnacle, but we've always got an adequate baseline that works. Right. So, so

[00:07:10] Michael: far we've had very good luck with the Gavita 1930s. , they've been wonderful fixtures for us. The, we've had even light production, very little diminishing, you know, in production for actual, you know, intensity throughout the rooms.

[00:07:23] Michael: Over about two and a half years now, we're still running pretty strong. We've only lost, I mean, less than 2% [00:07:30] fixtures over almost a

[00:07:31] Seth: three year period. Yeah, that's awesome. I think those perform great too, especially when you've got a room that was built for hps, you got a little bit taller ceiling. It's a better direct bolt in that I don't know.

[00:07:40] Seth: That's always disappointing to see people switch over from a thousand wat hps to like a seven, 700 wad, l e d when they're like, oh, I gotta lower my lights. And it's like, yeah, you're gonna have to fine tune that now. That's just another thing. So there's definitely merit using the old tech.

[00:07:54] Michael: Well, at least we're in a world now where people are more brushed up on what's happening with the lights.

[00:07:58] Michael: So you don't have [00:08:00] mean, early on with LEDs, you had a lot of people. Purchasing, like what they were being sold because there wasn't enough market data on the lights themselves yet. . So you had a lot of companies producing like 315, 340 wat lights that they were guaranteeing commercial yields with.

[00:08:14] Michael: And a lot of companies got shot in the foot by that. Early on, buying those three 40 wat lights and thinking they were just gonna drop 'em down on top of the canopy and they'd be fine. They. You know, big veg plants instead flowers. Oh

[00:08:26] Seth: yeah. Well, and I mean, yeah, when you look back at it too, you know, they were, [00:08:30] they kind initially put some of those LEDs and even the T five fixtures in and like, gymnasiums and stuff.

[00:08:35] Seth: yeah. You know, arenas cuz they're replacing i d lighting for like sports arenas and it looks pretty damn bright in there. You know, it's hard, it's still hard to look at a three 50 wat light without glasses on. It's not good for you

[00:08:47] Michael: if you don't have the science behind it and have the actual data on what it's putting out, then you're not aware that it's still too little.

[00:08:55] Seth: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the same thing even goes for know, some bigger greenhouse grows where you go and [00:09:00] you look up and you're like, wow, the lights are like 14 feet up. I get it , that's like where all my pearls are. That's where everything lines up. I can strap 'em up there and it's easy. But you might wanna get a light meter and kind of dial it a little bit, you know?

[00:09:16] Michael: And that one's a great rule of thumb for if you can just look up, your lights aren't bright enough. Yep,

[00:09:21] Seth: exactly. Exactly. But you know, that's it's taken more and more science over the years to establish that, you know, we kinda always knew like, hey, you get [00:09:30] better production and warmer, brighter climates.

[00:09:32] Seth: Right? But greenhouses came along not to be the most controlled indoor environment ever. They've always, you know, until cannabis came along, basically, at least in the US they've been built to be just enough. You know, what's adequate. It's always farmer mentality. And that still carries over into cannabis.

[00:09:49] Seth: But we do have a little bit better margin to work with and I think a higher interest in ensuring qu crop quality compared to a lot of vegetables for.

[00:09:59] Michael: [00:10:00] Absolutely. And the well, and you look at a lot of the vegetable markets and there's such a high waste rate for what they produce. Like, I mean there's all these ugly food markets opening up for a reason because a huge majority of what's produced goes to the wayside because it's not even aesthetically pleasing.

[00:10:14] Michael: And then we can move fast. The amount of it that's just goes straight to the garbage because it's not actually adequate in style and fashion. Like it's construction, it's base form is inadequate in size, in flavor, and just overall fucking composition.

[00:10:29] Seth: Right, [00:10:30] exactly. So when you're dealing with that kind of market and spoilage, you know, like you can only put so much into a tomato because you know you're gonna lose 20 to 30% potentially, depending on where your market is and you know your resources to get it off the vine time.

[00:10:43] Seth: You know, if you've got indeterminate tomatoes and you can't pay harvesters to go out every day, you know, in mid to late summer, like, well, you're gonna lose some tomatoes. That's how it goes.

[00:10:53] Michael: Well, that's been a another wonderful thing working with guys like, like Josh that's on the call with us today and learning more about nutrient [00:11:00] balances and getting to talk to the guys that have been in the industry, you know, much longer than I have, and being able to learn about their experiences and start quantifying what I'm dealing with based on what they're, you know, providing for us.

[00:11:12] Michael: Being able to work with that information moving forward has really been a wonderful fucking thing. ?

[00:11:18] Seth: Oh yeah. Having good resources and especially people that are, you experiencing what they're, what you're actually growing specifically like with cannabis, there's so many, over the years there's been so many nutrient companies out there and then there's so many, you know, [00:11:30] case specific situations.

[00:11:31] Seth: What's your water quality like? You know, there's certain nutrient lines that like, probably are gonna be tough to run if you have poor quality or tough to inject. And, you know, there are a lot of different problems that can arise from that. Or, you know, just like anytime you can talk to someone who's gone through it before.

[00:11:48] Seth: You don't have to make the same mistakes. That's what I value about meeting with a lot of the older guys. You laugh about irrigation system problems or Oh yeah. Mainly irrigation system problems and water quality [00:12:00] issues. They're like, wow, we've got enough background now to actually solve some of these issues.

[00:12:05] Seth: There's resources.

[00:12:06] Michael: We're past the world of water wands and Octo bubbles. Oh yeah. .

[00:12:12] Seth: Well, and you know, just even injection systems, you know, like if you look at the breadth of designs over like the last 10 years that every year people are getting better and better. And it's you know, part of it's because it, on a commercial scale, people hadn't been doing it with the small of an injection system indoors, like high volume, outdoor, like say some big berry farms or produce farms in [00:12:30] Southern California with these huge injection systems.

[00:12:33] Seth: When you've got a six inch pipe and a lot of water flowing through it, that's a little bit different. Mixing, you know, with these smaller systems, it's taken years of people. Essentially finding all the weak spots. You know, what is the best way to line your dose of trons up

[00:12:48] Michael: much do you need for appropriate mixing in a half inch line,

[00:12:51] Seth: Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen a lot of different solutions to that screwed to a bunch of different walls and I can tell you wider range in success. So [00:13:00] it's definitely, yeah, it's nice to be able to like, have some reliable resources like that. Josh and Ramsey help a lot of people out, especially on the nutrient side.

[00:13:08] Seth: And that's great. It's an awesome resource. Michael,

[00:13:11] Kaisha: you're, I have another question for you. You're the growth systems manager there, and I'm hearing all, just so far you've talked a little bit about like kind of bridging that gap between like, just the legacy techniques and data. And so I would love to like your role as growth systems manager you know, is that part of what you do is kind of bring in some recommendations for things to adopt [00:13:30] in your facility.

[00:13:31] Michael: Yes. Our head cultivator or satana does any calls go through Orion. But it's my position to try to research and provide the best routes that I can so that when that call's made, it's one with appropriate research and appropriate backing behind it. And I've, as well, it's fortunate.

[00:13:50] Michael: He's also an industry, you know, long time industry grower. Has had clone companies in the past, currently has Orient Orion Genetics, if anybody's looking for some fresh OGs out there, . [00:14:00] But it's great to be able to work with him as well, to have somebody else that has a decade plus of experience in the commercial industry to be able to help make these calls with, and throw stuff against and have it bounce back.

[00:14:10] Michael: But bringing in new science, bringing in the information from these guys, and putting it up against what we're being told from our ground level growers, because working with your team is the only way to succeed at this level. Like having a wonderful team and working with what your team's feeding you is the only way this can work.

[00:14:26] Michael: So a lot of your ground level guys don't have access to the same [00:14:30] information we have right now. They don't, and they don't have the time to get online and research and read. Those guys are busy bust in their ass. Well, I'm sitting in a chair, you know, . So it's it's about bridging that, that gap between the information we're being provided and working it into the old fashioned style of growing and trying to integrate the newer practices into what we've been doing that we know is successful.

[00:14:51] Michael: And then channeling that data back uphill through Seth and through Jason and trying to find a way to relate that to what other people are dealing with and [00:15:00] create new programs to try to advance what we're doing.

[00:15:05] Seth: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you guys get to do a lot of cost benefit analysis on things coming in and then you know, it, having tools really allows you to analyze what you were doing before.

[00:15:14] Seth: And at the end of the day, I always like to tell people, you know, this is. It's half science, half art. The art part is you, the grower knowing, you know, it's not necessarily knowing the pulse or the feel of your plant, although a lot of people like to put it that way, but it's being able to look at it and tell if it's healthy, [00:15:30] you know, is this plant responding to what I'm doing in a positive way or the way I want it to?

[00:15:35] Seth: Yeah.

[00:15:35] Michael: And when we're talking indoor cultivation, there's so many individual factors that go into each growth space. I, we have 31 flower rooms here on property, and every one of them is a unique environment, . Yep. So these guys, ground level have to have a feel for every individual room and the plants of each strain in each room and how they're going to react to that

[00:15:56] Seth: unique environment.

[00:15:57] Seth: Yep. And I mean, a lot of it just comes down to problem [00:16:00] solving on a daily basis. You walk in and go, you know, hopefully you don't see any plants that look bad, but if you do, why ? We have to fix it, you know, to no matter it's, you know, oh. Years and years ago, teaching some people the place I worked that had just come on about calibrating, like, okay, we gotta calibrate our pH meter, we gotta calibrate our ECU meter.

[00:16:22] Seth: Like why? Well, it gets off pretty quick. It doesn't take long to calibrate guys. And if that's wrong, like we can chase our tail [00:16:30] for a while, you know? Or

[00:16:34] Michael: even as simple as you know, having a couple of different temperature sensors in your room. Yeah. You know, you might have a hotpot that you don't know about.

[00:16:40] Michael: Yep. You know, that's why you're crisping out. You're drying back 10% more in that area and don't realize it.

[00:16:45] Seth: Absolutely. Oh yeah, no I've totally hung a de and then came in the next morning like, and we torched like six plants. That's cool guys. But you know, it was like, at least that one was an obvious one.

[00:16:56] Seth: If we had like, made it harder to see that we're [00:17:00] blowing a blow dryer, , those six plants we probably wouldn't have figured it out that quick. Cuz immediately it was shocking. It was like something must have gone horribly wrong. You know, and it had, but if it wouldn't have been the person who put that de in the day before that walked in, I don't know, if I didn't, you know, be like, oh shit, who else?

[00:17:21] Seth: That's

[00:17:21] Michael: a stop gap that comes up frequently. And commercial cultivation now, because it's your ground level cultivators are far too busy with all the challenges [00:17:30] that come with this industry to get in and do your maintenance these days. So you have maintenance guys, which is a wonderful thing that the industry's progressed to that point that you can bring in talented individuals with that specific set of experience.

[00:17:42] Michael: However, they're usually not growers. . So it's something that you have to have that solid communication across the board with your team to have that information available all the time. Like your growers need to know when a new D home went up, you know? Yep.

[00:17:54] Seth: Well, and you know, I think a big thing for a lot of growers and especially their staff, is trust establishing like, Hey, [00:18:00] if something you know looks bad, tell me.

[00:18:04] Seth: You know, don't keep it a secret. Don't think anyone's gonna be upset because a plant died or whatever. Like, no, it's a, we gotta solve the problem. We need to be aware so that no one's operating on some premise that's falls.

[00:18:16] Michael: I'd rather dump out 300 gallons of mixed nutrients and have you send a bad mix to a room?

[00:18:21] Seth: Oh, absolutely. Or you know, just every day of the week, in my experience, when you have like, too complicated of a mix and you go away for the week and you come back and there's [00:18:30] just a pile of powder in the bottom of the heads and you're like, okay, so clearly we need to simplify six parts is way too many for the weekend crew to mix, I guess.

[00:18:38] Seth: And it sucks that, that's reality sometimes. But though those are that's that risk analysis, I guess you're quantifying how much of risk you want to take when you can simplify and make life easier.

[00:18:50] Kaisha: Joshua just posted a comment in the chat. Josh, I don't know if you wanna unmute yourself, speak to it, but speaking to the importance of calibrating the CO2 sensor two, [00:19:00] I'll just read it here.

[00:19:00] Kaisha: We find so many out there off by 500 plus ppm. Yeah. Joshua, you wanna go ahead and speak to it?

[00:19:04] Josh: Yeah, no, I was just, it was a comment when he was talking about calibrating c sensors. It's nobody ever thinks to calibrate the CO2 sensor, and we find those off so many times that it's pretty crazy. But I mean, if you think you're feeding, you know, a thousand parts per million, but you're actually giving toxic levels, you know, those plants start looking really weird.

[00:19:23] Josh: Nobody knows why. , there's so many times I've gone into facilities and like, yep, that's, yeah. [00:19:30]

[00:19:30] Michael: Or the other way around. Unfortunately,

[00:19:31] Josh: that, and they're actually giving 200 and the plants are just starving. But, you know, you can play around with that. Intentionally affect transpiration rates, right? Like you can go towards the higher, the lower ends, you know, depending on what your setup is for dehumidification.

[00:19:48] Josh: You know, if you don't have enough, you go to the higher end to try to keep it down a little bit. Vice versa. If you need to get a little more transpiration going, but but you don't know what you're doing if your

[00:19:57] Seth: sensor's not accurate. Yeah. You're just [00:20:00] chasing your tail, right, . Exactly. Unfortunately, that's one thing I, oh, go ahead

[00:20:05] Michael: Mike.

[00:20:05] Michael: I was gonna say, unfortunately, that's usually the piece of equipment people spend the least amount of money on in the grow, so it usually swings the quickest. Oh,

[00:20:13] Josh: absolutely. Especially like the cheap troll master ones and little wall mount. Yeah. Yeah. If you spent less than a thousand dollars on your CO2 sensor, you expect to calibrate

[00:20:21] Seth: it weekly?

[00:20:23] Seth: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, at least. And also just my favorite I talked to some people a while back that you, they had ended up buying like [00:20:30] 15 of the Walmart AROYA meters. I just, you're just confusing yourself. Mormon, , and your plus or minus like 5%. Oh, throw that little white square

[00:20:38] Josh: thing away.

[00:20:39] Seth: It's, I mean it's, yeah.

[00:20:40] Seth: The more you buy, the less you should even trust those. And that's, you know

[00:20:45] Josh: this, for a living, I spent $5,000 on a good quality temperature, humidity, co2, handheld. And I mean, if you do it for a living, it's, there's no point in playing around with little $20 devices. Like just pony it up and [00:21:00] run with it.

[00:21:01] Seth: Yeah. And that's the pH sensor or pH meters are one of the other conversations that if people sometimes are like, I don't wanna spend two to three grand on a benchtop. And I'm like, I'm not saying you have to, but if you wanna be real accurate, yeah. This is where we're kind of, that's kind of where we're starting the conversation and it goes up from there.

[00:21:17] Seth: And you do have to calibrate those more than your cheap one says to calibrate it. But if you want accurate results, that's the reality of what it takes. What it takes. Yeah. We got

[00:21:28] Kaisha: a question here in the chat from Big Sifa [00:21:30] asking can you recommend a CO2 test product for calibration purposes?

[00:21:33] Seth: I'm gonna actually refer to Josh

[00:21:35] Josh: Yeah. You can find gas cans out there that are, that the gas inside the little tank is at a certain specific part per million. They use 'em for the life safety test. So you see, like when you set up a new facility and the fire marshal comes by to do his test on your CO2 life safety equipment, that's what they use.

[00:21:54] Josh: So you can, I don't, you have to look up where to pick 'em up, but they're out there. [00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Seth: There you go. Awesome. Thanks Josh. Appreciate that.

[00:22:03] Kaisha: I have another question. I'm sorry. I'm a passionate cannabis consumer. So Michael, I wanna hear about those genetics. What's going on over there?

[00:22:11] Michael: So, being a larger facility a chunk of what we have to do is cater to what's hot on the market.

[00:22:17] Michael: Like most people in the commercial industry, you have to do these days. We are trying to bring in more OGs, try to get some more of that gas back around. Like I said, Ryan Genetics right now, he's working with some King Louis and some old star killers to [00:22:30] try to bring some of that old funk back into some of the newer strains.

[00:22:33] Michael: Maybe slap a fresh coat of purple on one of 'em and get that old nose out with a little exciting color for the market. Across the board, like, like many people, we're running a lot of gelato related strains right now, and a lot of runs, crosses and, you know, your basic staples for the current sales market.

[00:22:51] Michael: We transitioned away from you know, the old fashions your wedding cakes and things that were previous hot industry staples to try to find something that's a little [00:23:00] brighter right now just to , keep up with things as we all have to do. .

[00:23:04] Seth: Have you guys tried to work on bringing the flowering time down on some of those older OGs?

[00:23:08] Michael: Yeah that's something we're trying to tune in a little bit, trying to work on whether it's, you know, a little bit more generative as we come through, like generative a little earlier in the life phase with a little higher light intensity through the finish the flower. But something to try to increase that maturation a little faster in those, try to avoid anything over nine weeks as best we can.

[00:23:28] Seth: Yeah, I mean, that's about all you can do [00:23:30] sometimes is kind of select out of there and hope, you know, when you're doing your back crossing. Some of them come in a little shorter, but I was just curious. That's been kind of my dream for years. to really work with some OGs and some diesels and get 'em down to that eight and a half, nine week range.

[00:23:42] Seth: I haven't been able to do it yet. with my own process. I did some some auto diesels. That was pretty fun, but that doesn't really count, I don't think. Not for a. Flowering plan that's different. I did

[00:23:54] Michael: a lot of playing around for a couple of years with a male of a Ken's GDP cut, and that one just [00:24:00] spent too long trying to hunt the perfect pheno and never kept any of it

[00:24:03] Seth: . Yeah. And that's what happens. I mean, that's one sad thing about, you know, the way cannabis genetics work. You've got, you can go the traditional route with plant breeding really work on some lineages or man, there's a lot to be said about, you know, synthetic breeding. Basically open pollination in a room for a few cycles and see what you get.

[00:24:20] Seth: It might be messy on the paperwork, but you can get some really cool results out of it. So yeah, it's, I guess, has a lot in common with apple breeding[00:24:30]

[00:24:33] Seth: But I, I always think that's fun. Pheno, hunting's a blast. I would love to be in a situation. I loved working at a plant breeding company. I bred peas, , not quite as exciting as cannabis, but

[00:24:46] Michael: that's still exciting. You're trying to bring out the turf and those peas, man. Get that sweet

[00:24:51] Seth: dude. Purple flowers, man.

[00:24:52] Seth: That's what we're looking for all the time. .

[00:24:56] Kaisha: So, Ikea, when you're, you know, shooting for these [00:25:00] desired characteristics, like what are the considerations from a data standpoint, what is the kind of stuff that you're looking for your team is looking for in a day to day basis to make sure that you're moving in the right direction?

[00:25:10] Michael: So for commercial, anything, we try to run commercially. We wanna look for something that's gonna give us a couple of key standpoints. We want something that's gonna have a bright enough TURP profile that it's gonna hold in a jar for a while. I mean, we're all competing on shelves in the end game.

[00:25:24] Michael: So we have to have a product that after a little while is sitting on the shelf and you crack that open, you're still gonna get that bright [00:25:30] floral aroma flowing out at you. And a lot of these wonderful strains we've been running for a long time are only good from your trapper, cuz you got it six weeks after harvest at best

[00:25:39] Michael: And with the current cannabis industry, it just doesn't work out that's how quick that flower gets to the consumer. It typically takes, you know, three months is a very short period of time in the current industry for your product to hit a shelf. And more likely you're looking at six months.

[00:25:54] Michael: So we need something that's gonna have a bright enough TURP profile and a strong enough TURP profile to hold through that period of [00:26:00] time. And then something with a well enough consistency in the bud structure and in our overall flavor for the smoke that the consumer is gonna want to come back and grab another one.

[00:26:10] Michael: So, I mean, like I said, a lot of gelatos, it's a wonderful base strain. , it's got a real bright floral, fruity turp profile. Little bit of purple,

[00:26:19] Seth: frosty as hell. . I can comment to Kaisha and say anything that they, that makes it to the point of going through that QA test. It's probably looked pretty reasonable on the graph if they've had a sensor [00:26:30] in it, you know, if they've blown it up to the point where they're trialing it.

[00:26:32] Seth: I know that's a consideration they're looking at as well. Like, is this a plant that's reasonable to grow or are we breaking our butt to just keep it alive here? You know, there are some finicky plants that your pheno hunting just do not work in your facility like they can. If you can run that whole room at that pH.

[00:26:48] Seth: Yeah, that's fortunately

[00:26:50] Michael: having the number of flower rooms we do, we are able to mono crop most of our rooms.

[00:26:54] Seth: Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:26:56] Michael: However, it's still it is the trick, like you said, of finding the the best [00:27:00] strains to produce enough volume and still hit those other standpoints for you. Like it has to have all the ticked factors for the consumer, but it still has to produce a volume to make the corporate office happy.

[00:27:10] Michael: We still have to make money and keep the lights on, right? Like everybody go home with a little money at the end of the day, .

[00:27:16] Seth: Oh, absolutely. I've grown some great, some strains that I personally love to smoke that are semi dwarfs, or at least the pheno that I ran into and that don't work on a commercial basis.

[00:27:25] Seth: Why? Cuz you ve for five weeks and they still don't get very big. They're just a semi dwarf [00:27:30] plant. They won't get big, so they're not really worth it. However, we might be hitting a point soon where there is that, you know, heirloom market for the home grower, which is I'm excited for. I think we're gonna see a lot of stuff re resurface from there and then maybe allow some breeders to kinda push some popularity there that they can then push out into the commercial market from there.

[00:27:53] Michael: Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of the guys bring in, you know, widows and trying to find the old skunks and get 'em thrown back at [00:28:00] the bottom end of their lines as best they can to bring that old flavor back into things. Get that brightness back out.

[00:28:05] Seth: . Oh yeah. It's out there. And you know, I mean some of these traits when you start to look, I noticed big si you asked about good breeding info resources for a beginning breeder just classic Mendelian genetics.

[00:28:16] Seth: Just look at a book about basic plant breeding. Go back. To Greg Mendel . It's pretty, pretty simple. And take it from there. And then when you study it more, you'll learn about, you know, things like genetic recombination and you know, [00:28:30] gene linkage, things like that. Where does it actually apply to you as a breeder?

[00:28:34] Seth: It's learning about those statistics and trying to figure out, okay, can I predict, based on the lineage I'm looking at, will I be able to predictably make a cross? And if I make that cross, will the trade, excuse me, try not to sneeze, , will the trade I'm looking for be one in 10, one in 20, one in 2 41 in 10,000?

[00:28:53] Seth: You know, and that's where things are starting to get super exciting for cannabis, I think is we're working towards being able to search for those [00:29:00] one in 10,000 pheno, like actually do a synthetic out to F four and say, all right, we're doing a 10,000 seed run here. Hopefully we got one of the perfect expression that we're looking for.

[00:29:15] Seth: Money's making that hard for people right now, , but we're getting there. I think you give it another five, 10 years and there's gonna be a better legal structure for breeders, especially if we get some federal legalization, better legal structure for breeders to actually, you know, [00:29:30] create IP and protect it in a more real way.

[00:29:33] Seth: Right now, like with licensing agreements, you can do a little bit, but at the end of the day we need Supreme Court backing to finalize those property rates well and with the way that

[00:29:42] Michael: the market's going for large scale cultivation right now, where I think we're pretty quickly here in the next couple years, gonna see a transition where we have our, you know, your Budweisers of cannabis and your micro brews of cannabis.

[00:29:55] Michael: You're gonna have your small, you know, garage style grows that are producing your micro brew [00:30:00] cannabis that's coming out at a boutique quality level. And then we're gonna have a lot of mass scale corporate cannabis that's competing with each other for. You know, the middle or the low end of that boutique scale.

[00:30:12] Seth: Yeah. One thing I do think that's, it's gonna be interesting though, the least that I see on the genetic side is when we're talking about, you know, like, breweries for instance. A lot of those breweries big and small, depending on, you know, if they're brewing, you know, I mean obviously you've got your, your cores, your Budweiser, whatever, that's, you [00:30:30] know, they're brewing like just loggers and super cheap ingredients.

[00:30:33] Seth: But then you've got a lot of mid-range when, you know, Sierra Nevada, dog, Dogfish head, like all these nationwide, Sam Atoms, micro brews that are, you know, not so micro anymore. What we're gonna see I think in genetics is some breeders are gonna lean more boutique, but at the same time, the same qualities are good for both types of producer.

[00:30:52] Seth: So, like, you know, if you've got a plant that's oh, I'm trying to remember the name of it. Invades me right [00:31:00] now. But there was one strain he used to grow that was just incredibly mold resistant. Well, that's good for everyone. not just, you know, big producers, not just boutique guys. Like there's some great boutique growers I know that struggle with HVAC issues for a variety of reasons.

[00:31:16] Seth: You know, and sometimes it's not just money being able to put in, it's like, oh, the building you own is a hundred years old and it's got limitations. You're putting caulk in between the bricks and stuff. Like, you know, [00:31:30] there was

[00:31:30] Josh: one genetic called, I think it was called Slimer. We tried to give it mold.

[00:31:34] Josh: Could not, the thing just would not mold. It was popular down in that Salinas Watsonville area for a little bit.

[00:31:43] Seth: But yeah, I mean it's hugely valuable mold resistance right now is I'm sure you could echo that, Josh. I talked to a lot of people, that's one of their biggest struggles, you know, as they, they hit the ceiling with yields and then now they're grown mold.

[00:31:54] Seth: Yeah, exactly. It's, and

[00:31:56] Josh: There's definitely breeding work to be done there. Like there was this cherry [00:32:00] West genetic that we had back when I was working down in LA that would nat, we couldn't grow it commercially because it would pop naturally for Pyrethoids because it grew them itself.

[00:32:12] Josh: Naturally. You couldn't give the things test If you tried, we like sprinkle spider mites on it wouldn't work. It just be, just couldn't. So there, there are those traits out there. We just gotta kind of combine 'em and select the right

[00:32:24] Seth: ones. Yep. And it takes space, right? Like, I mean,[00:32:30]

[00:32:30] Josh: Pheno systems, like the like that pheno specs thing. , you line up some plants and, or there's a, what was the, I can't remember what the other one was called, but there, there's one where every single plant gets a load cell, a on off measuring spoon tipper. It gets, you know, EC sensor, volumetric water, content temperature, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, oxygen, everything.

[00:32:54] Josh: And you can tell, you know, within a couple weeks things that normally you would have to wait for the yield to determine, [00:33:00] you know, your overall photosynthetic rate. You can figure that out in, you know, a week. And if you know that, you know how fast the plant's gonna grow. Stuff like that. So it's out there, but it's expensive.

[00:33:10] Josh: That's, you know. , a small room set with that system is like 250 grand or something like that I think. So it's not

[00:33:16] Seth: cheap. No. And that's just so you can predict a crop. What happens if it's growing too slow? Do you rip it down ? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One thing I think that's going to be interesting, you know, fis, they kind of tried to start it with their cannabis [00:33:30] genome network or map that they're doing.

[00:33:32] Seth: But you know, just with the timing coming out of the Dark Ages, , we'll say you know, the old black market it's gonna take time before we can really compile all that information. You know, and I know when I talk to different breeders out there, it's like, well, where'd you get those genetics? And some of them are honest, some of them aren't.

[00:33:49] Seth: A lot of them got 'em from a person and they don't know where that person got 'em. You know, so we're dealing with, when you look at the chain of custody, going back with seeds, it usually [00:34:00] doesn't go like 30 years is a long time. These days, 40 years is a real long time. I don't know anyone who knows much about seed history before that, you know, so it's gonna be a while till we figure this out, until they identify markers.

[00:34:13] Seth: I know there's a company here in Pullman that's been working heavily on powdery mildew resistance gene. They've identified a few markers. That's a start. That's a huge start. They probably need to get access to thousands more samples and hopefully identify those same genes in [00:34:30] other cultivars or varieties and figure out, okay, where can we actually source some of these resistances and have, you know, source material that we like to work with, not just say this one plant that is pre marginal on the turfs, but it never molds.

[00:34:44] Seth: Like that's maybe not the best breeding stock always. Not the best marketing strategy, right. . Right. And it's just hard, like, you know, even with the amount of F1 hybrids out there, you know, I, there's definitely been plenty of times on a pheno and we pop seeds, [00:35:00] Hey, this one's supposed to be mold resistant.

[00:35:01] Seth: Well, I'm sure one of these pheno is, but how many test grows do we have to do? You know, how much do we have to do , you know, , how much do we have to blow up these 20 seeds and also have all these different pheno? So now we're putting most of it to oil. Like it, it gets to be an expensive process, trying to identify that stuff.

[00:35:21] Seth: It's all about

[00:35:21] Kaisha: playing that long game. Michael, I have one more question for you, and then if you and Seth are down to answer some of the live questions we came in, we'd love to hear your feedback. But you know, you [00:35:30] got into cannabis as a teenager you're doing it a vertical. We're in California.

[00:35:34] Kaisha: It's been a wild couple years. 2022. 2022 has been crazy. Just like wondering what your any good, any advice you'd wanna share with the folks out there just to kind of keep 'em hanging on and hang in there and looking forward to the

[00:35:46] Seth: future.

[00:35:47] Michael: Just keep pushing forward, man. It's all we can do in this industry is just keep pushing forward.

[00:35:52] Michael: Ed. You have to weather the storm right now and trust that there's enough of us that care about the industry moving forward in a quality way with good [00:36:00] product and appeasing the consumers as patients, because that's where it all starts is, you know, flower medicine man. You know, trying to keep people moving forward in a healthy way.

[00:36:08] Michael: You know, even if that's mental health and you're just trying to chill out, you know, like. That's still a necessity and that's a little better for your body than booze, in my opinion.

[00:36:15] Seth: Here. Oh, absolutely, yes. There's enough

[00:36:18] Michael: of us pushing to, to keep this a quality industry and to stay away from the, you know, your base corporate standards that a lot of the other industries have fallen victim too, where it's about higher production and [00:36:30] lower quality at all costs, you know?

[00:36:34] Seth: Yeah I, I'd like to echo that. You know, I do a fair bit of work in Canada, and that's what we've seen up there. You know, Canada obviously has a much smaller population than like even California, but you know, they had, when it, when they legalized, it was federal, so all the provinces got it.

[00:36:53] Seth: Green explosion. A bunch of these big commercial operations did not put out quality. They went for quantity. Market got flooded, [00:37:00] and now you've got, you know, 20 to 40 million facilities that are being sold for, you know, 10% on the dollar, basically, because they put all this investment in. But were not able to turn a profit as a company really in the first few years.

[00:37:14] Seth: And we're a bigger economy , we're having a slower rollout. So like that's gonna happen over and over in different states as time moves on, especially because we're probably a ways away from interstate commerce. You know, we're not gonna enjoy the same luxuries that winemakers [00:37:30] enjoy for a while. But I think as the market gets educated in the US we're seeing a turnover back more towards quality, especially, you know, you're always gonna have your, like you said your Budweisers, your cores of the weed world.

[00:37:43] Seth: That's gonna exist for sure. But I think it's also, you know, especially because there is the whole medicinal aspect to it. There is a bigger demand for quality cannabis than there is compared to say, the beer market. That's just kind of my opinion. I guess maybe [00:38:00] there's some numbers out there that'll prove me wrong, but even when we look at, you know, the Midwest, for instance where I come from, people there now are way more educated than they were 15 years ago.

[00:38:09] Seth: You know, in terms of like anything about cannabis what are quality indicators? What are they looking for? The whole culture's changing. So I think we're, you know, like you said, keep moving forward as long as you stay in it and you've got the right attitude. And also, you know, this business attracts entrepreneurs.

[00:38:29] Seth: If you're an [00:38:30] entrepreneur, you know, like you gotta put a lot of efforts in a certain place in order to be successful. And right now, as long as you make sure your business plan is good and your cost per pound of production is low enough that you're gonna be able to survive. That's what's important. You know, just be realistic about it.

[00:38:48] Seth: Garner the old days of getting super rich real quick off of cannabis. It's farming at its core. Well, and

[00:38:55] Michael: the longer we have legalization, the more people we have getting a broader experience with [00:39:00] products. So we have people smoking, you know what, you know, the TURs purple wave, right? Like stuff that has great jar appeal, but once you crack it open, there's no on it.

[00:39:08] Michael: It's structure is not that great. You know, it's there just to look good behind the glass. Yep. You know, and the, you have a lot of consumers that start with that stuff. Those are your cheap eights and cheap grams to pick up your, maybe it's a pre-ground ounce, you know, who knows how you grabbed it first.

[00:39:23] Michael: But the longer you spend in the industry, you're hanging out with your friends, you start smoking a little better product. If you're interested in continuing [00:39:30] using that product, you're gonna start looking for better versions of it. Few people are gonna stick with the cheapest, worst version of what they find.

[00:39:37] Michael: And the more consumers we have gaining more experience, the more consumers we have pushing for better product.

[00:39:43] Absolutely.

[00:39:44] Kaisha: You just, Michael, you literally just explained my trajectory into the cannabis . It's like, how did you, were you there? That's so

[00:39:51] Michael: great. We all started with Mexican red hair pressed into a brick, you know?

[00:39:53] Michael: Yeah, I was gonna say,

[00:39:56] Seth: you break up a pound of the hacksaw,

[00:39:58] Michael: you're like, is that a rock? [00:40:00] I'm I'll

[00:40:02] Kaisha: it though. That's you guys. I'm

[00:40:06] Mandy: in Texas. It's still too real for me, so come on. It's too

[00:40:09] Kaisha: soon. Just kidding. Amazing. That is awesome advice. While we have some time, let's go ahead and get to some live questions.

[00:40:17] Kaisha: Big sci-fi. See you turn on your camera. That's perfect timing. You have some question? You had a question about hypochlorous acid. Let's talk about it. What's going on? Okay, I do.

[00:40:26] Seth: So I'm in the process of setting up a precision drip drained [00:40:30] waste. I will be hand mixing batch tanks. And my question about hypochlorous was how long does it stay active?

[00:40:38] Seth: In a solution in your batch tank? That's a good question. I would not think a whole lot beyond 24 hours. Okay. Especially at the kind of the concentration we're putting it in. Particularly if you have an open top reservoir, that's gonna gas off a little easier. Sure. And like

[00:40:55] Michael: At our facility we're manufacturing it on site, so we don't have the [00:41:00] excess binders that are in a lot of your commercially purchase products.

[00:41:03] Michael: So we have typically less than 24 hours to get that run through because we're venting that a lot faster. I see.

[00:41:10] Seth: So would you recommend using that, like for even to talk about using it for adding adding oxygen to your reservoir, it kind of doesn't seem like it's really worth it if it's only gonna be there for, you know, 24 hours.

[00:41:20] Seth: Or would you recommend mixing a fresh batch tank every 24 hours? So in most big commercial applications, you're gonna be mixing that fresh batch [00:41:30] tank every day. For that room. And that's part of where it comes in. You're mixing that hypochlorous in and then you're doing your bulk of your feeding in the morning.

[00:41:37] Seth: So like if I go in at 7:00 AM gonna be feeding at 10, I'm gonna mix that tank up, starting at seven 30, gonna have it fully mixed by about eight 30, have that hypochlorous in there, that's gonna kick on an hour and a half later. Most of my irrigation water is gonna be in the morning for my P one. Or I can do it off of that tank if I want to, and then it's not gonna be as effective the rest of the day.

[00:41:59] Seth: But [00:42:00] the point is, I get that hypochlorous flush at least once a day. If you're not gonna be, you know, if in your situation that tanks that res is gonna last several days, you might not need to add it every day, you know at once. Make sure you. I would

[00:42:15] Josh: not be concerned with it. Like the point of it is to sterilize, right?

[00:42:18] Josh: So if you've got a closed top reservoir, you add it in there. When you make your reservoir, then there's nothing alive in there. Right? As long as you can't seal you're good. The, you know, putting it through the drip lines, [00:42:30] if you're using a good clean salt product and not shoving a bunch of carbohydrates or sugars through drippers, like it shouldn't be anyways, then there's not really anything, you know, as long as it, the tank was made right and you don't have a bunch of chemicals reacting with each other, there shouldn't be anything to clog drippers with.

[00:42:47] Josh: So I don't think it needs to be run as a continuous feed in, in mo most batch tank setups. Fantastic. Yeah, that

[00:42:55] Seth: is awesome clarification. I will be using Athena Pro also. Cool. [00:43:00] No extras. Why? No, I'm just kidding. .

[00:43:05] Michael: It's

[00:43:05] Seth: the other thing. I know I,

[00:43:07] Michael: we're

[00:43:08] Seth: a small startup and Athena, it's super easy.

[00:43:10] Josh: So we're, you know, a lot of people use it.

[00:43:14] Josh: It's a decent product.

[00:43:17] Michael: Have

[00:43:17] Seth: Big Sifi. Big thing though. Make sure your res is in a dark spot. If you've got light on that and it's you're staying mixed for a few days, it'll definitely grow some algae and a few other nasties in there. Especially if you have, you know, not a good seal on it. [00:43:30] And it does have its own room, so that won't be an issue.

[00:43:31] Seth: Perfect. That's gonna be pretty good. Yeah. Especially if you can keep that temp under 70 degrees. You know, if your feed water's 60, 65 or so, you'll be golden. Or just blanket or something, right? Yeah. Just make sure it's not getting light on. Follow another, don't

[00:43:47] Josh: surface PVC in underneath lights or anywhere there that you can't have light.

[00:43:52] Josh: That white PVC is not, it's not opaque. And algae will grow in inside. If you do have schedule 40 pipe [00:44:00] already and you don't feel like ripping it all out and putting in schedule 80, then you can just get any colored latex base paint. As long as it's latex base, you can use white even just paint that pipe.

[00:44:10] Josh: It'll the, and I did lower

[00:44:12] Seth: schedule 80,

[00:44:13] Josh: so that is perfect. There

[00:44:15] Seth: you.

[00:44:16] Michael: Thank you guys. And that is why, that's why we run the Hypochlorous asset Daily in our drip lines, is to avoid the buildup of biofilm and our white PVC lines. .

[00:44:25] Josh: Okay, perfect. Got white. It's tough, but you know, painting that [00:44:30] would be something I'd put on the to-do list for sure.

[00:44:33] Seth: Yep. That's a great idea. I like it.

[00:44:36] Josh: S thank you much, I appreciate your help. Lot of, a lot of farmers out there and regular a with the, you know, the, not even schedule 40, but you know, ipss one 20 or something like that. 1 25 and you know, we'd get all kinds of calls when I worked at the net f my drippers are clogged.

[00:44:51] Josh: Your guys drippers suck and go out there. Yep. They're, they got an algae farm in their pipe, so .

[00:44:56] Seth: Yeah, it's all over. Yep. Well, you know, [00:45:00] if you have any light in there, we got a hot nutrient soup out there, light contamination or

[00:45:05] Josh: enemies. Especially if you're growing cannabis and you have kind of a higher phosphorous level, you know, those algal blooms hurting rivers and whatnot.

[00:45:13] Josh: You know, the higher your phosphorous load is, the faster that algae grows.

[00:45:16] Seth: Yep. Exactly. Oh my gosh.

[00:45:19] Kaisha: Amazing. Big cipher. Thank you for that question. But also, we legit have three excerpts on today. Are Ryan logged in? I don't know if we can say we have four experts. I don't know if Ryan wants to see anything today, [00:45:30] but Mandy, I know we've got some questions in our YouTube.

[00:45:32] Kaisha: We wanna get take, get those taken care of today. I'm gonna throw it over to you. Oh yeah,

[00:45:35] Mandy: it's been pretty hot over on YouTube. So I'm gonna hop into these. Dr. J 3 0 3 wrote in, I don't keep mothers, so I have to veg for six weeks. How can I slow their growth to control height,

[00:45:49] Seth: lower temps less intense light's probably gonna make him stretch.

[00:45:52] Seth: But if you, he's going from seed is what I presume he's saying. If he has to do a six week veg. [00:46:00] Or are you cutting off your last round before you flip 'em? Is that where we're at with it?

[00:46:05] Mandy: Well, let's see if they write in with a little bit more context. But we did have a couple other questions and I'll go ahead and move on to those.

[00:46:10] Mandy: So yeah, air expansion paragliding wrote in. Hi, I'd love to talk about co2. Their first question, is it beneficial to exhaust CO2 out of a room during the darky and

[00:46:21] Seth: flour? I don't find a huge necessity to do that. I mean, if the plant's not using it and you have a sealed room, it's gonna stay in there.

[00:46:28] Seth: It's obviously not gonna use as much CO2 [00:46:30] at night cause we don't have photosynthesis happening, but I don't really see a point in wasting it. As a greenhouse grower, I would've loved to been able to not exhaust co2, so I could be fairly biased in that. Yeah if it gets to the

[00:46:43] Josh: extreme, you can have problems just with the, you know, when the lights first fire up.

[00:46:49] Josh: They may just keep their sta auto closed entirely if that CO2 gets to toxic levels after they've woken up. So it depends, you know, if you're over 3000, sure.

[00:46:59] Seth: [00:47:00] it

[00:47:00] Josh: out. If you're, you know, if it's getting up to, you know, 1500, 1800, don't worry about it. Just let it.

[00:47:06] Seth: And that goes back to calibrate your sensors, right, Josh

[00:47:09] Seth: Oh, a hundred percent. Absolutely. You know, and you know, we are hitting a point in time where hopefully you can direct inject CO2 and not use burners. I've definitely seen my fair share of problems with burners and them going a little. Oh yeah. Not burning the gas. Right. And then you Exactly.

[00:47:26] Seth: Carbon monoxide

[00:47:27] Josh: and all kinds of other shit in there that causes your [00:47:30] plants to go crazy. But the and there, have you heard of those? That Ag Gas company, they, they basically do the old greenhouse trick that, that I used to do at at Nen when we were building international houses. It was you take basically drip tape, but the heavier wall, you know, like they use in orchards and whatnot for, you know, 20. Drip tubing and run that through the top of the canopy and then have the CO2 gas run through those drip tubes cuz they, they do regulate the flow of gas, just like they [00:48:00] do the flow of water. So you get a pretty even distribution and it gets dumped right into the canopy so that it doesn't it doesn't just go off into the exhaust.

[00:48:08] Josh: And I mean, we've even we did it outside a couple times with actually good results. I mean, interesting. Get a real still day and you pump it out, you know, a couple times throughout the day and let 'em have just that little bit more. It does make a difference. So that's a, it's an interesting thought to, you know, be putting CO2 out where the air exchange is happening every hour.

[00:48:28] Josh: But but it [00:48:30] does work and CO2

[00:48:30] Seth: cheap. Why not? I've talked to a few guys who have done the drip tape trick with mixed results. However, sometimes I wonder how bad their temperature stratification is in different greenhouses too. You know, whether you have sensors. Yeah.

[00:48:43] Josh: Probably. If one in a, you know, 5,000 square foot bay, they have one temperature sensor that pulling everything.

[00:48:49] Josh: It's like, come on guys.

[00:48:50] Seth: Yeah, exactly. And how well does that stay put, you know,

[00:48:53] Josh: long greenhouse cuz they didn't know the first thing about designing for wet walls, you know?

[00:48:59] Seth: Yep. [00:49:00] And I mean, you know, that's what you see out there. I mean, one thing I will definitely say is the cannabis market has kind caused everyone to rethink how we go about HVAC control in, you know, growing systems.

[00:49:12] Josh: Yeah. Well, and like you said earlier, the you know, greenhouses in the US for traditional ag, you know, up. You know very well other than, you know, like howling and stuff like that. The greenhouse industry in the US is just, like you said, it's just barely good enough, right. They just, they're just trying to keep rain off [00:49:30] it for the most part.

[00:49:30] Josh: Cause the climate here is so mild that we don't need high tech, good greenhouse designs, but you go to other parts of the world, and I mean, the greenhouse can keep a tighter climate than we can indoors. It just depends on the style, especially those semi-closed greenhouses, like the howling one they tried to patent with kubo or whatever, if the optic or whatever it is.

[00:49:49] Josh: But I mean, you can get a better result that way cause you have constantly perfectly conditioned air just being blown up past the plants every second of the day. So it, there's definitely some [00:50:00] new technology that cannabis is helping make more widely available and widely known to the ag industry as well.

[00:50:06] Josh: It's pretty

[00:50:06] Seth: cool. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, before getting into cannabis, the only blackout greenhouse I had seen, well outside of, you know, research at universities was moms point settas actually. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. But up here in the northwest, they're a big one. Guess what? Those people haven't switched to grown weed.

[00:50:23] Seth: They still make a lot of money on point Settas. Oh

[00:50:25] Josh: yeah. They'll make more on that long term . We probably will on weed. [00:50:30] Wow. Is that where the

[00:50:31] Mandy: real money is?

[00:50:32] Kaisha: Oh

[00:50:32] Seth: wow. I'm writing. Well, they have access. There's

[00:50:34] Josh: crops that do far better than cannabis as far as, you know, profit per pound.

[00:50:39] Josh: Some of 'em, the labor gets cra like saffron or something that you can't grow here cause the labor's just too expensive. It all has to be harvested by hand.

[00:50:47] Seth: Yep. Very true.

[00:50:48] Josh: Oh

[00:50:48] man.

[00:50:48] Mandy: The amount of experience in this room. You guys know, this is amazing. I love the energy and thank you guys for sharing all of your experience with this.

[00:50:55] Mandy: We have so many topics going on, but, oh my gosh. Sorry. We have a lot of questions. We [00:51:00] have a second follow up question from air expansion. They wanted to know sometimes when my tanks run out, my room runs at 150 PPM for a day or two. Is this harmful to the plant?

[00:51:11] Seth: It's, you know, in my opinion, lost production time for sure.

[00:51:14] Seth: Any amount of time and flour when we're depriving the plan of, you know, a key component when it needs it is it's lost production time. It can't build sugar, can't build structure without carbon. It's not ideal, that's for sure. Awesome,

[00:51:28] Mandy: thank you for that. Yeah, a [00:51:30] couple more questions over on YouTube.

[00:51:31] Mandy: Diane wrote in so can you ask Seth, what kind of school or course you take to learn everything that you know about crop steering? What kind of resources do you have at your disposal or what kind of schooling did you go

[00:51:41] Seth: to? Well I have a degree in plant science and horticulture with emphasis in urban agriculture.

[00:51:47] Seth: So that is pretty specific for high intensity urban farming, that was helpful. Before that I worked in research for, well, and during, for about seven years working with breeding peas, [00:52:00] garbanzo beans, wheat, and then doing agronomy trials on field crops. So you star at a lot of dirt and you mix fertilizer with the dirt and you plant seeds in it.

[00:52:09] Seth: And then, You harvest a lot of seeds every year, . But then beyond that, you know, going into greenhouse cannabis production, well, starting in my basement like a lot of us do, and then moving up into commercial production, when I had the opportunity and staying in that for about four years what that allowed me to do was look at a lot of what I knew about plant science and [00:52:30] production techniques and vegetables and other high intensity crops, and then start to apply those to cannabis and know what I was looking for in terms of plant morphology responses, you know, and that I feel like is what really allowed a lot of this stuff to kind of click for me, like, Hey, here's what's going on.

[00:52:49] Seth: And then also the biggest thing I think that helped me was working in plant research, particularly agronomy previously, and being forced to, you know, I mean, the way I found out about Meter Group in [00:53:00] AROYA was years before I got into cannabis, I would install remote weather stations and wheat and barley fields.

[00:53:05] Seth: Using meter datas and transmitters and sensors. So for me it was like, okay, we come in. If we have so much control, we can put this on a very, you know, rigorous system. We can run a program very easily all the way through. Maybe not easily easier said than done, but now we can look back at data from a whole run and quantify those results.

[00:53:29] Seth: We can [00:53:30] actually pinpoint where we messed up and what we had success with. And that was something when I first came into the cannabis industry, I found at least with the people I was working with, the tendency was to be reactive. Because we're always stressed about that. Next, you know, the sale of this crop, basically everyone wants to fix like, oh, something's wrong.

[00:53:49] Seth: We gotta fix it, we gotta fix it, we gotta fix it. And learning to step back, do good crop registration, collect as much data, and look at a whole run. I think is what really got me [00:54:00] here. And then everything else kind of follows. You start noticing all kinds of small, different details and yeah that's about it.

[00:54:07] Seth: You know, you can have the education, but you've also gotta have the experience. Again it's half science and half art. So you've gotta study and you've gotta apply. Awesome. Thank

[00:54:18] Mandy: you for that. Diane also had a follow up question. Can you give me more information about pgr and is it gonna pass cannabis lab tests?

[00:54:25] Seth: What do you think about that? I don't know, Mike, I don't think [00:54:30] anyone tests for PGS that I've really seen out there. As

[00:54:33] far

[00:54:33] Michael: as I'm is one of the most, yeah.

[00:54:36] Seth: What do they test for specifically? Do you know? Well, like,

[00:54:39] Josh: like PLO or something like, you know, the ones that everybody knows about the phospho load.

[00:54:43] Josh: Shit like that. I mean, I've seen people use the chlor chloride, which was a portion of what was in that, that phospho, that plus PAC load was basically what it was. But they're there are some out there that, the only ones that, that I would ever be okay with [00:55:00] anyone using those is like, like the kelp one, you know, just spray kelp.

[00:55:03] Josh: It's got natural amino acids and whatever in it that basically does kind of the same thing. But most of those pgs are all about stopping vertical growth. We have better ways of doing that with crop steering than we do with pgr. Like, I can get a plant to stop exactly. To stop growing vertically a lot faster with steering than I can with a pgr.

[00:55:21] Josh: So it's, you know, Yeah. And that's, never personally got to use them. I was, you know, I didn't talk about my growing forever until I got [00:55:30] into the, you know, commercial industry really. So I didn't even know what phospho load was. I thought, I always thought it was just watered down mono potassium phosphate.

[00:55:37] Josh: So I never bought it , but so I never got to really see like what you know, how fast it does stop that stretch. But I, you know, I have to imagine if I can get it to slow down to, you know, less than an inch every couple of days, then that's that was pretty good.

[00:55:52] Seth: Yeah. And you know, when we talk about applying those, my big experience with PGS has been in tissue culture actually.

[00:55:59] Seth: And one thing about [00:56:00] it alright, that's different. Well, one thing about it though, when you apply any of those to the surface of a plant, you know, especially a more mature plant, infiltration of those hormones or pgs into the plant is actually pretty slow. So like, it's like fol your applications, can we get some things on in a fol your application Yes.

[00:56:16] Seth: Is as effective as through the roots. No. And with those sprayed on pgs that you're affecting those surface cells, but to actually get them to penetrate. And slow down stretch, like Josh said, you're gonna be way more [00:56:30] effective through crop steering and modulating what the plant's doing that way because that is affecting that PG condition.

[00:56:36] Josh: We, we can affect those hormones, you know, other ways without using chemicals that are actually usually more effective. Exactly. The whole PGR thing and people think it's like a magic chemical you throw on there and it's gonna make everything better, but usually it turns your product dog shit anyways. So it's you don't really, you don't really want to.

[00:56:53] Josh: And if we can use steering to get the plant to do what we want while still maintaining the best quality possible and keeping it clean and not giving [00:57:00] anybody cancer

[00:57:00] Seth: might as well. Right. Exactly. And you know, I mean it even comes down to like, if we're trying to control powdery mild tried us by some late flower spray.

[00:57:09] Seth: Anytime I put any kind spray on, especially if it's got an oil, an enzyme, anything else? I might have a surfactant somewhere other sort of dispersal agent. I'm spraying quite a few things on that. I probably don't need people smoking. Exactly.

[00:57:21] Josh: Now. I don't spray anything after after week three, week four ish, you know, just

[00:57:25] Seth: Right.

[00:57:25] Seth: Just don't do it. And I love the argument, what if it's peppermint oil? It's like [00:57:30] you want that on your weed little Christmas bud. I'm

[00:57:33] Josh: trying to smoke

[00:57:34] Seth: peppermint, you know? Exactly.

[00:57:37] Mandy: You guys, I'm so glad that growers out there care about this stuff these days cuz in the past it hasn't been so much.

[00:57:42] Mandy: So yeah, we

[00:57:43] Josh: still had some questions. I like to smoke my own. You kinda have to you. I don't wanna, I can only imagine. I'm not gonna make anybody else do it. You know, .

[00:57:50] Mandy: Exactly. You have high standards for a reason. Yeah. So we had a couple more questions over on YouTube. Kevin wants to know, what would you do differently to try to have bedsides pop in [00:58:00] early Flower?

[00:58:01] Mandy: I'm on day 22. Vpd is at 1.35 to six, EC 5.8 pH light is at 60. 60%. And it says 345 watts, or three sorry, 645 watts. Eight inches away. Hard dry backs, but only one plant out of 17 are showing. Do you have

[00:58:22] Josh: any advice? Turn those lights up. Yeah, I was gonna say, turn the lights up. No there's really the dimming thing is a big, I don't know why so [00:58:30] many people are so stuck on it.

[00:58:31] Josh: I mean, other than the fact that a lot of people took plants out of bedrooms that had 250 micros in a perfectly warm and moist environment, and then stick them in a flower room that's dry and hot and, you know, quadrupled the light intensity in itself wouldn't do anything. Right. Like the plants turn their chloroplasts on edge.

[00:58:49] Josh: They let the light penetrate a little deeper. You get a little more light out of it, and there's no negative response. The, that's the short term response. The long term, you know, within the next few days, [00:59:00] the plant starts growing smaller and fewer leaves because it doesn't need as many to provide the energy it needs for the flowers.

[00:59:06] Josh: So you actually reduce a lot of your labor. You're not gonna have to pull off as many leaves. You're not gonna have giant leave shading your, your buds. And if you leave that plant, un topped, that naturally open structure of the plant, lits is much light down in there as you need. We take like maybe five leaves off each plant, if that during the uh, You know, right after stretch, and then we don't touch 'em again until harvest basically.

[00:59:27] Josh: And, but if you know, you have these low light levels on it, [00:59:30] you're gonna have slow metabolism, you're gonna have slow growth, you're gonna have stretchy growth, and you're not gonna get a lot of bud sites because the plant doesn't, just doesn't have the energy for it. yeah, turn, turning the lights up would definitely would definitely help.

[00:59:42] Josh: And, you know, don't worry about it causing them to get too big because, Typically when, you know, if you have low light intensity, you know, starting out, say we start out two plants, same height, you put one under low light intensity, it's gonna stretch up super far looking for that light, you're gonna have a bunch of giant [01:00:00] leaves that it, cuz it's trying to capture as much radiation as it can.

[01:00:03] Josh: If you put, you know, the other plant under, you know, twice the light intensity, it's gonna grow half as many leaves. It's gonna grow more bud sites because it has the energy too, even with those fewer leaves. And you're not gonna have as much shade going on and you're not gonna have as much stretching.

[01:00:17] Josh: You'll also, you know, keep the top cola down because it's so, it's closer to that light intensity and the the side branches will reach to catch up and then you wind up with that kind of manure [01:00:30] shape people are going for anyways with the topping, but without having to touch your plants. And every time you touch your plants, that's another possible vector for disease and pests so that, you know, in lettuce they count the touches.

[01:00:41] Josh: And if you go over two touches per. Per head of lettuce, they know you don't make any money. So they wanna make sure that they only touch that head of lettuce one time. And it kind of, similar in cannabis, if you count your touches you're getting a very good analogy for what your labor bill's gonna be,

[01:00:56] Josh: So if you know that we only touch it, you know, once going [01:01:00] from flour or from veg to flower, we'll do a little, you know, bottom cleanup. Get the little shit off the, you know, very bottom of the main stock. And then don't touch 'em again until you know, you know, put the trellis out that first day.

[01:01:12] Josh: Don't touch 'em again until they've done stretch. You know, when you go in the room, just peek your head and look around, make sure everything's okay. Don't, you know, if you're going into the crop and reaching in and, you know, doing stuff unnecessarily, then you're just increasing your chances of bringing.

[01:01:28] Josh: Basically a long winded answer. I [01:01:30] don't even remember what the original question

[01:01:31] Seth: was, but that's ok. But you invited me of up, Josh, since we were talking about the pgs. That light intensity actually is huge. In stopping stretch, you know, if you can harden off your plants, basically take 'em from clone and really ramp that light up so you're matching DLI when you go into flour.

[01:01:45] Seth: Hugely important. Another factor there, light, it destroys oxy. That's why Phototropism works. So when you have your Aly dominant bud that produces the most ox out of any of those buds on the, or any of those branches on the [01:02:00] plant, if that's light, light is blasting it, that's actually slowing down that oxy production.

[01:02:04] Seth: Exactly. When you're spraying to try to slow down, you know, stretch, you're usually spraying a higher cytokinin concentration, which is antagonistic to oxen. So you're slowing down that ox action. So right back to that, there's no reason if you're using those sprays, there's a weakness in your system or.

[01:02:22] Seth: You might be trying to grow a freak genetic that's not good to grow. Those do exist. Yeah, they definitely

[01:02:27] Josh: do. And you can get ones that, you know, [01:02:30] I, we may personally love the smoke of it and it may, you know, may be really nice, but it doesn't yield shit and it takes nine weeks to get there. Or 12, 12 weeks to get there.

[01:02:38] Josh: You know, just , that's a hobby strain. Then don't grow it for, don't grow it a commercial facility, you know, grow for yourself. You really,

[01:02:44] Michael: I love sour diesel, but it just doesn't have enough structure and nobody wants to buy it. It takes 10 and half fucking weeks . Exactly.

[01:02:51] Josh: That's one of those, you know, keep it for yourself.

[01:02:53] Josh: But, you know, as far as the commercial market's concerned, you know, until people are willing to pay a little bit more for these strains that take a [01:03:00] little longer than, you know, they just don't

[01:03:01] Seth: get 'em. Well, and you know, one thing I've seen guys that I, I try to encourage people to do is a few companies up here in Washington that I know that'll do a 10 or 11 week run, they just do one or two a year, do a limited drop.

[01:03:13] Seth: And plan their marketing to try to help 'em out with that and

[01:03:16] Josh: put it back to back with one of those, you know, very few 56 days or something like that. Yeah.

[01:03:21] Seth: Yep. Just, you know, have fun with it.

[01:03:23] Josh: So you have, you know, you have your 10 weeker plus your, you know, exactly eight weeker, and you can, you know, [01:03:30] you average out at nine and you can still keep your total number of harvest you

[01:03:33] Seth: want.

[01:03:33] Seth: Yeah. There's this whole hype world out there that I know, you know, as a cultivator I never really cared about, I was never really big into the Instagram world or any of that, and I probably should have been and should be more, but

[01:03:45] Josh: with you, the only reason I got one was because Ramsey made me, I know you're not into it.

[01:03:50] Josh: He said if you're gonna be in this industry, you kind of have to have one. Otherwise, nobody will know who the fuck anything is or what you're doing or, exactly.

[01:03:59] Michael: [01:04:00] I'll say though, something that, that we've had to do with the LEDs out here in the Moja, if it's if your lights are turned down for a heat issue, Cause that's something we deal with out here in the Mojave.

[01:04:10] Michael: Cut 10, 20% off your light intensity to get your heat down to a reasonable level and keep your pumping out booth, you know?

[01:04:16] Josh: Oh yeah. There's always those emergency scenarios where, you know, an AC goes down so you gotta turn down the lights temporarily, but the key is to make it as temporarily as you can.

[01:04:25] Josh: Right? If you're having that situation every single summer, then it may be time to look at [01:04:30] your AC load and maybe add another five ton or something, you know, just to Absolutely. To make up for that little difference. Even if it doesn't run for, you know, half the year or whatever. At least during the summer, you know that you can keep your crop consistency where it's at.

[01:04:42] Josh: Cuz eventually, you know, when there's enough of this shit out there where you know everybody. You know, starting to figure out where their little hole in the market is, what genetics they sell the best, you know, where their market is. You know, your consistency has to get better because people are [01:05:00] gonna go to the store and want to buy the same thing that they got last time.

[01:05:04] Josh: That was really good. And if they buy the same thing and it's shit, then they're like, oh fuck, I'm not gonna use this brand anymore. They can't keep their shit together. . So that, that kind of like, you know, you can go to Belgium and buy McDonald's and it's the same shit that, that kind of consistency is what think will help a lot of people.

[01:05:20] Josh: Establish and maintain a brand even without having to go into this hype, you know, let's replace our genetics every two weeks thing. , you know, I think some something to be said for dialing in a genetic [01:05:30] really well and being able to produce that to a quality where people are like, I really like this genetic, and the only person that produces it really good and consistently is this company.

[01:05:41] Josh: So that's where I buy that genetic. Just random thoughts. I need to stop talking. No, this is

[01:05:47] Mandy: great. This is the future of cannabis. It's super exciting. Oh my gosh. But you guys we just like, we blew through an entire hour and we still have questions, so we're gonna have to save the rest for next time. So yeah, great discussion everyone.

[01:05:59] Mandy: Oh my gosh. [01:06:00] Josh, come back on the show. Michael, please come back or please

[01:06:03] Josh: come back and we can take one, we can take one

[01:06:04] Seth: more. You, Josh is on a roll. Let's go

[01:06:09] Josh: right now. Wanna do one?

[01:06:10] Mandy: Yeah, we do have one more. So yeah, this one's about leaf temperature. So Diane wrote in I how can I make my leaf temperature be lower than my room temperature by lowering relative humidity?

[01:06:19] Mandy: I wonder why my room temperature is 85 degrees and my leaf is 83. Is there any way I

[01:06:24] Josh: can pull 'em off? It should always be lower than your air temperature, right? If your [01:06:30] plant is transpiring, then it's letting water vapor out of that leaf, right? Which cools it. That's your, you know, thermodynamics it should be happen.

[01:06:37] Josh: If you have a leaf that is the same or warmer than the air temperature, then that means you're, then that means your environment is not good. It means that the still are very likely closed down because it's either too dry, too hot, too whatever. Could be a combination of your root zone plus your, you know, like for example, when you're in the first three weeks of flour, right?

[01:06:56] Josh: A lot of us do a really generative program to kind of [01:07:00] stress the plan out a little bit and get it to produce a lot of bud sites. Well, during that time, if your vpd drop or goes to. Too far past that, like 1.3, 1.4 threshold. I mean, those still model will close on a dime and they won't, you know, the process and the hormone, the ABA hormone that causes that shutdown, it, it can be released instantaneously, but it takes like an hour or two to dissipate.

[01:07:25] Josh: So once those still models shut down, they shut down for a good hour at least, [01:07:30] and you've missed out on that entire hour of growth and transpiration and nutrient movement and all that good stuff. So the, you know, trying to keep your leaf, you know, the, using the leaf temperature is a good way to figure out if your plants are transpiring or not.

[01:07:45] Josh: You wanna see them somewhere between, you know, two and seven degrees cooler Fahrenheit than the air temperature is. And, but again, it comes down to your sensor calibration, right? Like if you're using. Two different sensors to measure that, that aren't, you know, [01:08:00] precise and you know for sure accurate, then you really don't know.

[01:08:05] Josh: You know, it could be that, you know, one of them is reading two degrees cooler than the actual temperature is, and the other one's reading two degrees warmer and so they look like they're the same when really they're not. But yeah. That's super. I'll let somebody else talk. The theme

[01:08:17] Mandy: of this episode is calibrate your sensors, everyone,

[01:08:19] Seth: please.

[01:08:22] Seth: Absolutely.

[01:08:23] Michael: And calibrate it. .

[01:08:24] Seth: Yeah. Well, and right there though, I mean, we're just talking a leaf surface temp is really important. I get that [01:08:30] question a lot. Well, how do I need to run my room? It isn't just as simple as Dfh PS or LEDs. How far are the lights away? What kinda leaf surface times are we getting?

[01:08:37] Seth: What are we getting at? You know, how high is your a bud compared to the branches surrounding it? , that's, if that thing's like two feet higher. You need to do something about that. Cause we're gonna have some interesting issues. The bud

[01:08:50] Josh: temperatures can get really interesting too. That's another one that we kind of, you know, if your bud temperature get.

[01:08:56] Seth: I think it, what was it above? It's like above [01:09:00] 85. You wind up

[01:09:00] Josh: having some really interesting morphology pop up. It's foxtails. Yeah. Yeah. that and yeah, that and just some, yeah. But but yeah the fox tailing is also we've found a lot of it just from overly vegetative, bulking phases, people just a little too ham on it and late push

[01:09:21] Josh: Yeah. And then, you know, you switch to flush or whatever. At the very end you see those new white hairs popping out when they shouldn't be. That's just you pushed it a little [01:09:30] too hard.

[01:09:31] Seth: I gotta

[01:09:32] Kaisha: say we drop knowledge every week. But this episode was the knowledge dropper of knowledge droppers.

[01:09:38] Kaisha: Michael, Joshua. Thank you so much for joining us. You have a permanent spot weekly. Feel free to join us every week. I can, I'll hop on. Yeah, no, it was wonderful having you. And then Mikey also great to hear more about your background and what you're working with. We love seeing you on office hours, and it's cool just to like get to know you a little bit better.

[01:09:56] Kaisha: So thank you so much for joining us today. [01:10:00] Handled it. Thank you so much for holding this down like you do every week. And Mandy, thank you for co moderating with me. We're gonna wrap this up. Thank you to everybody who joined us for this week's AROYA Office Hours. We do this every Thursday, and the best way to get answers from the experts is to join us live.

[01:10:14] Kaisha: Remind reminder if you have a topic you'd like covered the Future Office hours session, post it anytime via AROYA app. You can drop 'em in the chat live. Shoot us an email to support.aroya@metergroup.com. Send us a DM over Instagram. We are also on [01:10:30] TikTok. We are everywhere. So just send us a note, let us know what's going on, what you wanna know about.

[01:10:33] Kaisha: We record every session. We'll email everybody in attendance and link to the video from today. It'll also be on the AROYA YouTube channel, like subscribe and share while you're there. And if you find these conversations helpful, please do spread the word. Thank you all so much. We'll see you next week.

[01:10:47] Seth: One more big

[01:10:48] Josh: was he asked me how to get in contact with me.

[01:10:50] Josh: Oh yeah,

[01:10:51] Kaisha: absolutely. Just stop the recording. Go ahead and one.

[01:10:58] Seth: Case is.