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OHL 52 TX 1
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[00:00:00] Kaisha: All right, it's Thursday at 4:20 PM Eastern. That means it's time for office hours, or is weekly session for cultivators to learn from the experts and talk to each other about what they're seeing with their grows. My name's Kaisha. I'll be your co moderator today. What's up, Mandy? Hey,

[00:00:15] Mandy: Kaisha. How's it going?

[00:00:17] Mandy: How's it going? We're here for episode 52. Oh my gosh. And guess what? For today's show, we actually have a very special guest, but I will let Kaisha and Jason introduce them in a minute. We are also [00:00:30] going live over on YouTube soon, so make sure you send us your questions if you're over there. And if you're here live with us, make sure you send us your questions and we will make sure that we get all of those to the team.

[00:00:39] Mandy: I'm here to remind you if you're active on any of the social platforms. So that means Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn, if you're super professional and social club. If you're super stony Please follow us cuz we're on all of the accounts now and we have different content for all of the different platforms.

[00:00:57] Mandy: And while we got a lot of questions in this week, [00:01:00] so I'm not gonna waste any more time with the intros, I'm gonna go ahead and pass it back over to you, Kaisha.

[00:01:04] Kaisha: Awesome. Thank you Mandy. Yep. You have a question with us. You're live with us right now. Type it into the chat at any time. And if your questions selected, we'll either have you unmute yourself or I can ask for you Seth and Jason in the house.

[00:01:15] Kaisha: What's going on guys?

[00:01:17] Jason: Hey, I think we're here now. All right. Appreciate everyone's patience today. We're excited to be chatting with Dan and having another great episode. Great to see you back in here, Seth. We're always always have more fun when you're around.

[00:01:29] Seth: [00:01:30] Thanks, man. I'm stoked to be back. I definitely missed us.

[00:01:32] Seth: Yay. Month or so. So it's good to be back at

[00:01:35] Kaisha: it. Awesome. You guys mind telling everybody who's on with us today, give us, give our guest an.

[00:01:40] Jason: Yeah, we've got we've got Dan from sis and we're really excited to have him on. He's got pretty good history of growing some of the best weed in the industry and would love to hear about what he's done, how he gets there and maybe how we've been part of some of the success that he's been getting recently.

[00:01:59] Daniel: Yeah. [00:02:00] Thank you for having me on, guys.

[00:02:03] Seth: Yeah, it's great to have you on the show, man. Yeah. So

[00:02:06] Jason: if everyone's ready, maybe we'll just start grilling you with the questions and and pick your little brain there. All right, man. What's what's your background? What were you doing before cultivation and how'd you get started in the cannabis industry

[00:02:21] Daniel: before cultivation?

[00:02:22] Daniel: Well, so started cultivating about 19 years ago, [00:02:30] so didn't do a whole lot before. I did. I did some door-to-door sales basically through high school. And that's pretty much it. I didn't do much outside of cannabis industry. I mean, getting I got into cannabis industry probably when I was in high school, just like some people.

[00:02:51] Daniel: Start smoking weed and you're like, damn, I can make some money off this too. Just kind of always had like an entrepreneurial like spirit, I [00:03:00] guess you'd say. So I think that's what kind of led me into maybe like the sales part of it. And then, once you realize that you could start growing it yourself, that's where, the game changed a little bit.

[00:03:14] Daniel: So I started growing and stuck a little house grow back then. And then as time progressed, sales part of it, wells changed and doors got open for me to expand into the legal realm and here I am. [00:03:30]

[00:03:30] Jason: Very cool. And on a timeline about when did you start growing cannabis at scale.

[00:03:39] Daniel: I mean, probably five years

[00:03:45] Seth: ago.

[00:03:47] Daniel: Nice. Probably doesn't, I don't think it's been that long. Only about five years.

[00:03:53] Jason: Very cool. So you were perfecting the art kind of hands on, real detailed, long time before jumping into the big game, which[00:04:00] some of the best cannabis we see can come from people like you.

[00:04:03] Jason: What other than smoking cannabis what drew you to. True being a professional cultivator. I'm sorry, say that again? What what drew you to being a professional cultivator? Like, always any of us can smoke pot after work. What is it about the plants? Was it about the people you were working with?

[00:04:20] Jason: Science, I

[00:04:22] Daniel: think, I think just having such a history with the plant. I just, I always see myself [00:04:30] being in the industry regardless of what happens in my life. I just, I wanna be connected to it for some reason. I don't know what that reason is, but I'm drawn to it and I'm just, I feel really blessed to

[00:04:43] Seth: even be here.

[00:04:45] Seth: Yeah. I think a lot of us do too. It's pretty awesome to be in an industry that you're passionate about, yeah.

[00:04:49] Daniel: So, like, I tell people all the time because I play the lottery, like, I'm like not gonna win a hundred million jackpot and I'm just gonna. Dig deeper into this industry. I'm not gonna, like, [00:05:00] some people will be like, oh, I'll just retire, never work again.

[00:05:02] Daniel: I'm like, what? Why would you do that? And just the word retired doesn't even compute my brain cuz like if I'm just, if I'm gonna be alive, I want to be doing something, growing to get better and helping people jobs, like this is where my brain

[00:05:17] Seth: works. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I know for me, one thing that's been cool is to watch it go from, totally black market.

[00:05:22] Seth: We had that intermediate medical period, there's still some medical growing up, but the industry's been changing so much that if you've been involved for a while, [00:05:30] you never got to really settle into a set, stream for very long. Every couple years it's like, well here's something new. And even in the wreck market now, just small law changes are huge sometimes.

[00:05:41] Seth: Yeah.

[00:05:43] Daniel: And now who knows what the future holds with the type of money that comes into this industry and. What manipulations could potentially happen, so we have to be prepared to create something better than they can, I guess. Right. , like,

[00:05:59] Jason: yeah, [00:06:00] that's, that's one of the, one of the tough things, like we always get people being, oh, we should federally legalize this.

[00:06:05] Jason: And we've been fortunate enough to be part of the state by state legalization that's really offered a bigger opportunity for craft cultivators to be successful, in, in other industries. Even if we look at what cannabis industry in Canada has happened, we've got massive conglomerates that come in with, hundreds of millions of dollars and really.

[00:06:23] Jason: Stomp the market as far as where craft cultivation can exist. And so I think that we've gotten [00:06:30] pretty lucky with the route that legalization has gone. And, even though state by state legislation can cause some issues like oversupply and. Oregon or what we're seeing some of the market trends in California happen right now.

[00:06:44] Jason: I still think that's a better chance than what would happen if if it was legal across the US all in one, one big blow. So, I know for me, that's something that has been a huge opportunity for startups like AROYA and probably some of the facilities that are growing top tier.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Jason: Product like you are. Yeah,

[00:07:03] Daniel: and I mean, I don't know about you guys, my family, we find brands that we align with and we want to continue giving them money. And I see that being similar, in the cannabis industry, everyone can have a great product, but if you offer some other sort of connection with the consumer they'd much rather give you the money than somebody else.

[00:07:22] Daniel: So that's, I think that's key in expanding

[00:07:27] Jason: businesses. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up [00:07:30] brands. Maybe you can give us some insight on kind of what the most important factors of your brand are. And maybe, it sounds like all your product goes through Dizzy. Maybe we can just give the crowd an idea of why people choose Dizzy.

[00:07:42] Jason: What, is it culture driven? Is it just product quality? Is it experience? What are the kinda the main factors that drive people towards that product?

[00:07:52] Daniel: You know what? I'm just contracted to, to grow for them. So I don't have a whole lot of insight on what they do and how they do [00:08:00] it, but I know that they have they've been very successful at connecting with the certain market and the people that like their product.

[00:08:08] Daniel: And, I'm happy to be able to contribute to that, but as, as far as insight in into their success, I don't really know. I just kinda stick to the cold, cultivate and do my thing and. let them win.

[00:08:23] Seth: I can comment to that a little bit. I think a big part of it is connecting people like you to the whole process all the way through [00:08:30] sale.

[00:08:30] Seth: You're connecting to the culture, but also making good business moves. It's one thing to build a brand, but once you add all the other facets of the business onto it, you have a more complete package. I think that's one thing a lot of people are struggling with is having an organization that.

[00:08:45] Seth: Big enough to adequately service all those needs. You wanna focus on growing, you don't wanna spend your time growing a brand, right? So it's to your benefit to work with people who can focus on that. And that's, we're just seeing that hit the industry. We've got a lot of companies out there that are very [00:09:00] focused on the brand, but they're not big enough to own seed to sale or cut to sail, and it's really cool to I think to visit st especially in LA and see, the different facilities and see how connected all that is it's huge to me. I can go to the store and go see someone like you inside of a couple minutes, not, hours.

[00:09:20] Daniel: They really got a good thing going.

[00:09:21] Daniel: I'm super proud of them. . Daniel,

[00:09:24] Kaisha: I have a question for you. So you have history from pre legalization to now, like what was [00:09:30] that transition like to go from, maybe just growing what you love, doing what you do, like really feeling, feel fulfilling a passion versus now like, this is your work, you are contracted, you have goals that you have to fulfill.

[00:09:41] Kaisha: So like, what is that, like, what's that been like for you?

[00:09:45] Daniel: Well, that period of time was, it was very interesting because a lot of people were either like wanting to do it or not. Like a lot of people either. They had their thoughts on what the market would be like.

[00:09:58] Daniel: And but I [00:10:00] knew that, if this started, it's gonna progress. So I wanted to get my foot in the door and I had, one of my best friends is actually, like a partner in st. So he was able to, can bring me along for the ride, so to speak. And it, it's really cool, like I see people that have never made the transition, and some of 'em just fizzled out and they don't even grow anymore.

[00:10:25] Daniel: And without transitioning and doing that[00:10:30] I feel like you're limiting yourself on where you could actually go in the future. Is this opened up so many doors, like just working with you guys, like. I didn't even know anything about crop steering until I got into the legal market.

[00:10:45] Daniel: And once I got introduced to that from a friend, definitely crashed some crops, , then you guys came along and, just threw me a life preserver and basically things have been really good ever since.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Jason: I'm glad you said that, Tom. I heard, I saw a comment on Instagram earlier today and someone was talking about how great can, has been grown before AROYA and it will be after AROYA.

[00:11:11] Jason: And I was thinking, well, I'm a great driver. Still wear a seatbelt every day. So , even the best of the product coming out, it's nice to have something to refresh your knowledge as far as, what are my consistencies in the room or my environment into acting appropriately and keeping tabs on that stuff when you're too busy to [00:11:30] do that yourself.

[00:11:30] Jason: So maybe we'll transition and Go ahead.

[00:11:36] Daniel: Yeah I mean, I really enjoy being able to see how the EC is fluctuating, the water content, temperature, humidity, V P D, I'm constantly looking at that thing and just making little adjustments where I can, it's fun. .

[00:11:53] Jason: Yeah. So maybe you wanna tell us a little bit about some of the challenges that you've faced on a day-to-day [00:12:00] basis of work before AROYA and maybe some of the things that, that changed after implementing a little bit more sensor.

[00:12:09] Daniel: So, I think what, with my introduction to crop steering, I didn't really get that much information. I didn't know anything about like a P one or P two. So, I was doing these waterings in the beginning and. , I was using like the first generation troll, master water content and sensors, which I felt were very [00:12:30] inaccurate.

[00:12:30] Daniel: I would think that I would have more water in there than I did, and all of a sudden you see plants burning. It was like, oh, wow. I guess it wasn't accurate. . . So, yeah. Well, once, once I got AROYA and I started talking to Ramsey he really showed me a lot on how to properly, get your water content up, P one s, P two s, and then I've just been kind of experimenting it with it, ever since and working really good.

[00:12:56] Seth: Yeah. And I know one thing I love about the system I'm sure you could comment on is, we are in a [00:13:00] phase where we do have a basic outline of like certain irrigation strategies that promote certain types of growth, right? But when it gets strain specific, you're always adjusting going like, man, I can bulk this one harder, or I can push the EC harder on this strain.

[00:13:12] Seth: And that 24 7 data monitoring makes you, helps you repeat it, when you actually do something on accident, but you get it right. Knowing is like half the battle. It's horrible. When you have your best run ever, then you look back and go, what did we do different? You're looking through your notes like, I don't know,

[00:13:29] Jason: who goofed up [00:13:30] the settings on the thermostat and made the product fantastic this time.

[00:13:33] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:36] Seth: So yeah, to me that's been huge. And I'm sure that's been a big part of your growing process too, as you've scaled up and really filled out these huge facilities.

[00:13:45] Daniel: Yeah and to be honest, I. I don't, fully use your platform like I should. I'm still kind of old school. I like to write stuff down, so, I look back on stuff and, but you know, your data definitely helps out.

[00:13:58] Jason: So do you get a [00:14:00] select your genetics or is that is that driven by to supplier or by by the sales there,

[00:14:06] Daniel: I can choose to put, whatever I want in the rooms. And I'm looking for something that's gonna sell and something that's gonna yield and. and make money. So, if we can make the consumer happy and make money, and then I like the way it grows, I'll just throw it on repeat.

[00:14:23] Daniel: And that seems to be what I found with this particular kind of lemon cherry gelato I'm running right now. It seems [00:14:30] to veg well, flowers well bulks, well finishes really nice. And the terpene one is just like pure candy. Like I actually discontinued smoking, for my personal development reasons,

[00:14:45] Daniel: And this one makes me like, just wanna try it. I'm you don't like, I really wish I could just, just light up a joint of it when it's done, cuz I just wanna know what it tastes like, , I don't necessarily wanna get high. [00:15:00] I really wanna know what it tastes like and, oh I kind of wish, that would be kind of cool, like having like c d strains that don't necessarily mess with you cognitively, but you can enjoy those same wonderful terpenes.

[00:15:13] Daniel: Like that would be pretty amazing. I imagine that's

[00:15:15] Seth: coming. I think we're getting there. Yeah. I mean, a big part of it right now is just the monies in high THC numbers, the, we're waiting for that boutique connoisseur market to kind of settle in, cuz I mean, the reality of that, right? [00:15:30] Like if you wanted to, if you want to do that beautiful TURP expression, it's gonna be a great breeding project, , it's gonna take some time.

[00:15:37] Seth: And then also you're gonna have to be dialed as a grower to repeat that. We talk about phenotypes, but getting into chemo types like. You might grow it and then it actually comes out at like 8% thc and you thought you were growing something with one or two, and then you're like, okay, well that's yeah.

[00:15:50] Seth: Eight percent's not a lot, but for the people that go to the store looking for one or two or less, they're not gonna buy it now. Now it's not, low enough THC for them. [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Daniel: Yeah. I wonder if different lighting spectrums and stuff like that will help out in the future with that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:08] Daniel: We're,

[00:16:08] Seth: It's all coming together. I mean, one thing I think and that's what's awesome, talking to people like you that have been through pretty much every iteration of this market, right? Like you've got your, I like to call it your generation one build out, which is like your garage slash the basement

[00:16:21] Seth: You got your gen two is like, ah, the first time we actually got a space for this, and then there's gen three where you actually ironed out a lot of the details and it performs like you want to and [00:16:30] doesn't break down twice a week. , you

[00:16:32] Daniel: know, humidification control like . Yep,

[00:16:37] Seth: yep. There's all those little things that come together.

[00:16:38] Seth: And I think that's one thing cool, that, for a lot of us in this industry, it's passion driven. And part of it's because if you've been in it long enough and almost anyone coming in, even setting up a brand new facility that looks just amazing. You've had some sort of issues to overcome and that makes you appreciate like where we're going and really appreciate technology and tools cuz at the end of the day, if you don't have the tools, [00:17:00] any kind of farming it's hard work.

[00:17:02] Seth: Yeah. It gets dirty, sweaty, it's hot there really,

[00:17:06] Daniel: , anything with tools is just, oh gosh,

[00:17:09] Seth: it sucks. Yeah. And it's just necessary, I mean, I know I've talked to several people you said that used to grow on the black or gray market, and coming now in direct, they're like, ah, man, that's, it's so much overhead.

[00:17:21] Seth: It's all this and all that. And I'm like, well, hey dude, here's a trade off. Back in the day, your stress maybe came from growing a legal product that had a premium on it. Now your [00:17:30] stress is just running a regular business like. , maybe a little mental resets in order. , one should be way more stressful to you than the other.

[00:17:38] Seth: And I mean, different people are obviously have different opinions on things, but it's kind of where we're at. Like, yeah, you got the stress. Running a business, having employees, , doing all that rather than just like, oh man, make sure the l make sure those windows stay blacked out and , let's not, figure out how many lights we can put on here before the power company starts asking questions or something.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Daniel: make sure your wires aren't running too hot. Yeah. .

[00:18:03] Seth: Yeah, exactly. How many lights can we get in here on one 20 before we burn the basement down? So it's just trade offs, right? And embracing like a little more I dunno, it's a different lifestyle. We're all still black sheep in society in a certain sense, right?

[00:18:17] Seth: We'd still knew It's more accepted than it ever has been, but , I'll say like having some background in a little bit bigger ag and more traditional crops. , if I wasn't passionate about cannabis, [00:18:30] cannabis plants and growth, really interested in that itself. I don't know if I would've taken the chance to become fully invested in cannabis.

[00:18:36] Seth: It's still a pretty niche thing, and I think that's what really drives it sometimes is passion with the growers and not even, right now the consumers are all kind of in an educational phase, it seems. Not everyone, but we're seeing probably more, cannabis consumption than we've ever seen before.

[00:18:52] Seth: But it's also still not, 90% of people in the US So it takes time.

[00:18:57] Daniel: It takes time. . Yeah. I mean, you're better than [00:19:00] against big pharma. They got all the other things to treat people's ailments.

[00:19:05] Seth: Oh yeah. And a lot of market research and huge amounts of capital to really dive in and, drive money making right now.

[00:19:13] Seth: It's I think a lot of success in the cannabis industry is really driven by creativity in marketing and growing and finding your niche. There isn't a, other than saying, Hey, you need to try to produce for under a certain dollar amount given, how much given your market that you're in.

[00:19:29] Seth: Other than that, [00:19:30] man, you gotta try to differentiate yourself and be original here. It's not the same as peas or strawberries or , all these other crops that have a little more of a standard they're shooting for

[00:19:39] Daniel: you. You just made me think about when I see these pictures of these.

[00:19:42] Daniel: Indoor grows with their beds of living soil. I'm just like, wow, that person's really has courage. . I was gonna say they're brave. Yep. I like I like the idea, like where it's going, but I just, I don't have like a hos to, to go [00:20:00] after it that

[00:20:00] Seth: direction. Oh, yeah. . Exactly. And part of it too, there's like, production solutions for all kinds of different markets and employee situations, right?

[00:20:08] Seth: Like I have talked to some guys recently doing living soil beds and some big greenhouses, but they're really small number of employees. So they go, okay, what's our payoff here? Do we ha we, we already don't have perfect control in our greenhouse, but we cannot hire a bunch of people. I'm like, well, You guys like wheelbarrows,

[00:20:26] Seth: And they're like, as long as we don't have to do it every two months, and it's not so bad, like, okay, [00:20:30] fair enough. Turning over, several thousand pots versus, Hey, maybe our yields are gonna be a little inconsistent, but it works with our business model. It's cool. And for some people that's something they can exploit.

[00:20:42] Seth: Hey, we're sun grown organic, get a little premium there. Yeah.

[00:20:47] Daniel: I mean, I guess they, once you have your market, , they love you. Yeah, a decent product should be okay. Yep. Figure out what

[00:20:55] Seth: works for you. And then also, I think the ability to be adaptable. Like in [00:21:00] your situation you could probably go through quite a list of pot sizes, different media you've tried over the years and what's gotten you where you are is not sticking and saying like, Hey, I'm gonna have a 15 gallon pot and this is the only way we grow weed and we're gonna grow these big plants.

[00:21:13] Seth: Like you walk into a room and go, oh that won't work. What do we do different in here that, how do we actually get our square footage production out of it? Not just, there's only one way to produce this type of herb. Seth,

[00:21:24] Kaisha: that is a perfect segue actually, Daniel, I wanted to ask you about what continuous improvements, [00:21:30] you're cultivating professionally here in California.

[00:21:32] Kaisha: This is a pretty informed consumer base out here but just like kind of wondering how you approach making continuous improvements to make sure that you're kind of delivering to consumers and patients, like something really special. ,

[00:21:45] Daniel: you mean as far as like from harvest to harvest? Sure, yeah.

[00:21:49] Kaisha: From your own practices, things that you like to kind of check in on and kind of evolve and change over time.

[00:21:55] Daniel: I like to see how the finished product is [00:22:00] perceived by, the smokers and then try to see if there's something like, oh, maybe if I would've taken this longer or shorter, it would've came out better.

[00:22:10] Daniel: Cause seems like right now a lot of the customers that, that I know are really concerned with the terpene profile and how it tastes, that's kind of been the biggest thing that's been steering, the manipulation is all make between harvest and then obviously trying to keep [00:22:30] the yield up as well.

[00:22:33] Kaisha: Yeah. So what are some of the things you have to keep in mind for that? So the tastes of the consumers evolving in a particular direction, they're interested in terpenes, so what are some of the improvements you have to do on your end to fulfill

[00:22:44] Seth: that?

[00:22:46] Daniel: Just keeping an eye on the plant as far as harvest time and then, when it gets to the drying room and the curing process.

[00:22:54] Daniel: That's where a lot of errors can be made. And checking in on the tremors, make sure they're doing a [00:23:00] good job. things aren't getting bagged too soon, too late. It's little things like that really, it's not super involved, but I mean, you have to kind of care about it to do a good job, I think.

[00:23:15] Seth: Absolutely. I mean, that's where kind of having each part of the process, not necessarily under a single person, but brought together in an organization is good because you not only, caring about what your finished product looks like, but actually getting to go ensure that whoever you pass it off to in [00:23:30] post-production is doing the kind of work that you expect them to do and want them to do is really key.

[00:23:35] Seth: Because it's easy. It's, this is a new industry. We always say that it's really easy to. Not ensure you have proper SOPs and proper quality analysis along the way. It goes right back to the old SNAP test. That's kind of hard to teach people. , yeah.

[00:23:52] Daniel: And there's a lot of people I feel that scale and even like on my end could do like, [00:24:00] consulting for multiple facilities.

[00:24:01] Daniel: And I haven't really wrapped my brain around how to do that because. , I'm so hands on and like, unless I bring on somebody that does that for me, I don't see how it could come out the same exactly. Me, just them over the phone or whatever. So I haven't extended my reach as much as maybe I could have if I was opening up, that can of worms, but I just I visualize it not working out , , [00:24:30] but it wasn't there often.

[00:24:32] Daniel: So I'm willing to take on something else like more local, where I can be around ,

[00:24:37] Seth: but that's what that small March of Progress is doing technology, right. Like, we're getting to that point where, we'll just take it back to like watering instead of even drying, without some sort of insight into what's going on.

[00:24:47] Seth: You're either out there picking up pots or trying to put 'em on a load cell or something, and like, if you're going by picking up, well, let me just hand you a book. Let's all hold it, write down a guess, and then put it on a scale, and how [00:25:00] many times do we have to do that as a team until we're aligned, about 1500 times a room.

[00:25:04] Seth: Yeah. For six months to a year. And then maybe you guys might all be close , so yeah, just little tools like not only insight into seeing there, but then also going into, pressure comp irrigation, which was a huge one for anyone that used to hand water switching over to that and going, wow, I can turn this on and give everything the exact same amount of water, whoa. And that's just part of scaling on all levels, whether it's watering your plants post-production, we see a variety of [00:25:30] hanging solutions, going to different facilities, that range from like, whoa, this is high tech, to like, man, you guys spend a lot of time putting weed up and taking it down, you.

[00:25:41] Seth: The clothes

[00:25:42] Jason: hangers.

[00:25:42] Seth: Yeah. I wasn't gonna be specific. Yeah. , sorry. .

[00:25:46] Daniel: Hey. They're professional, they're solid metal , and they, it all works, right?

[00:25:51] Seth: But it's that progress of like, well this worked and we can replicate this on a big scale. But after running that year two, you start to get visions in [00:26:00] your head and you're like, how could I do this in this space and have less mass and less pain in the butt taking it up and or putting it up and taking it down.

[00:26:07] Daniel: I think the best drying room I've seen so far is Miami Mangoes facility. This place is unreal. .

[00:26:15] Jason: They got that place pretty colorful these days too, don't they? Yeah.

[00:26:19] Daniel: Yeah. That's how you attract the attention, man. It's peacock, . Well, I mean, a little bit,

[00:26:28] Seth: right? That's the crazy [00:26:30] thing.

[00:26:30] Seth: It like here in Washington, I know since like the wreck market hit, I've seen some amazing weed at the store. that had zero brand presence and you didn't see 'em after a few months. And I was like, dang, that's a bummer. Like you can tell it's someone really passionate doing great work, and they're so focused on growing, they don't have time to make labels, man, ,

[00:26:50] Daniel: yeah. That, that, that is sad. There's a, I think there's a lot of growers under the radar like that. It's like, man, if you could just have a partner Yep. Cheerleader in your [00:27:00] background really win.

[00:27:02] Seth: Exactly. And it, and it's a time thing like , when you look at your organization, how that's a few people's full-time job is just to come up with that strategy, generate the content.

[00:27:11] Seth: Like that takes actual work. It really does. .

[00:27:15] Jason: Yeah, I was gonna say you've got a pretty good situation figured out there where you're supplying for one of the more notorious brands in the country right now. And obviously you gotta do what you love to be part of that and make that great so you get to keep focused [00:27:30] on how you play.

[00:27:31] Jason: An important role in their company and really get better at what you're doing.

[00:27:37] Daniel: Yeah, I mean, it's the only way to, to remain relevant in this industry is, to continue to get better. Cuz if we don't, somebody else will. And then, there's no job that's there forever. You

[00:27:49] Seth: like, oh yeah.

[00:27:50] Seth: And you nailed it there. And I think one thing we can all look at California's legalization and how that rolled out and know that, we're not gonna always expect the government to protect the small [00:28:00] business player or the medium or the large business player. Just cuz they say it's a regulated amount of licenses or anything like that.

[00:28:05] Seth: That doesn't mean it's gonna be perfectly fit to the market at all times. Cuz. They don't have previous data to look back at either, what do they have five years, six years to go? This is what's Rex's been selling? How much, what does that equate to for Canopy Space across the state?

[00:28:19] Seth: Licensing? They don't know yet. There's people out there still barely pulling a pound of light that are in commercial production. Okay. Well, if the state's looking at square footage and what kind of [00:28:30] yields to expect? , they can just kind of throw their hands up and say, well, they will yield somewhere between in one and four pounds, per four square feet.

[00:28:39] Seth: How many licenses should we put out next year? I don't know, , let's just sell 'em and see what happens. And

[00:28:46] Daniel: yeah, they don't, there's not enough information for them to, properly make those decisions. So.

[00:28:52] Seth: Exactly. And it, that leaves all the producers and just any real cannabis company.

[00:28:57] Seth: We're kind of in the. One of the purest funds of [00:29:00] capitalism. There is, I guess, ,

[00:29:01] Jason: well and you hit it there. The capitalism, I think there's some revenue based on tax. Obviously in California, the more cannabis that changes hands, the more money the government makes off of that. And so, there was probably some of those motivations in the background going on as well.

[00:29:18] Seth: Yeah. And e even in, even since Rackley hit California, Washington, Oregon, anywhere, , we're always going through changes. I think one thing, even if we do get federal legalization, [00:29:30] let's just take a look at the alcohol industry over the last a hundred years, states still have, the right to make their own laws regarding substances.

[00:29:36] Seth: So even if we got federal, le federal legalization this fall, I still don't think California's suddenly gonna be able to sell a bunch of weed to New York. So we, we still have a while I think, where we can really develop these boutique markets across the US and kind of secure those niches before anything happens that would allow massive facility to try to overtake.

[00:29:58] Seth: And if you look at a given [00:30:00] population size in any area, there are parts of the country where it's much more expensive resource wise to produce weed inside. But depending on your market price, it's not unreasonable to produce a sufficient quantity of cannabis for a given population. On a relatively small acreage, we're not talking about wheat or barley or corn or something.

[00:30:23] Seth: So

[00:30:24] Daniel: it's southern Oklahoma.

[00:30:26] Kaisha: Oh, go ahead Daniel. I'm sorry.

[00:30:27] Daniel: Interrupt. I said, how's Oklahoma

[00:30:29] Seth: [00:30:30] doing? Right, exactly. . It's the wild West, man. ,

[00:30:34] Kaisha: we're gonna get to some live questions. Seth and Jason and Daniel, if you have any thoughts on any of these, you'd be, you're very welcome to chime in. Chime in. But before we do, Daniel, let me ask you one more question.

[00:30:42] Kaisha: Like, it's been tough out there last couple years. Last year in particular was really hard for the industry, and I just wondered like any words of advice you would give to folks, like how, what would you say to folks just to kind of keep 'em going?

[00:30:55] Daniel: If this is something that you can see yourself doing long term, [00:31:00] then just stick with it, figure it out. It's just like having like an unplanned child. It's like, just figure it out. You don't, I don't have the answers for you on what it's gonna be for the individual to maintain.

[00:31:14] Daniel: Their position in whatever it is they're doing. But if that's where you can see yourself, do whatever it takes, I don't know, but , just continue. Don't not, don't give up.

[00:31:29] Seth: Yeah. [00:31:30]

[00:31:30] Jason: If you, excellent. If you put your heart and soul into it and you work hard at it, things will be all right in the end.

[00:31:35] Jason: Yep.

[00:31:35] Seth: Man.

[00:31:36] Kaisha: I love it.

[00:31:37] Daniel: People, like, that's huge.

[00:31:39] Kaisha: All right, well we're gonna dig into, see some of these live questions. Billbo dropped a few in the chat. We're gonna start with you, Billbo. I'm gonna ask you first one here. We're, I think, Mandy, we're gonna alternate between here and you two cuz we got a lot of live questions coming in.

[00:31:51] Kaisha: All right. Bka posted. How does the AROYA platform help with cost of goods sold per batch or as a. .

[00:31:59] Jason: Yeah. [00:32:00] So, by using the right amount of resources so in a lot of instances I get in there and a client doesn't necessarily have good measurements of how much nutrients they're getting into their plants.

[00:32:10] Jason: Are we running off more nutrients than we need to? Can these end up in the plants? Are we not running our HVAC systems efficiently? So maybe we could add a little bit more heat and grow a lot more product. Sure. Maybe our cost would go up, but our cost of goods sold could go down based on the input cost versus our output profit or [00:32:30] revenue on that.

[00:32:30] Jason: And so, I think the best thing there is trying to, or the best way that we can help. Do that is by equalizing all of our inputs. If we have extra inputs, they're not utilized by the plant. So if we are running more CO2 than we need to for the amount of light that we have, that's just a wasted cost.

[00:32:49] Jason: And so if we can optimize those all to be at the same efficiency as far as the input levels go, then that's the best way to reduce

[00:32:58] Seth: cogs. . [00:33:00] Yeah, I think you nailed it. I mean, a lot of times we do go in and find HVAC operation's a huge one. Sometimes people have a system that was designed by multiple people implemented at different times, and one of their big challenges is just getting that equipment to play nicely together to achieve what they're looking for and not have they're humidifier and dehumidifier running all the time.

[00:33:19] Seth: on separate controllers and small issues like that, that's huge. And then standardizing it, if you can take, just like Jason said, equalizing your inputs, if you can standardize those run to run, you can get a [00:33:30] really good baseline of what your cost of goods actually is. That's one of the biggest challenges out there right now.

[00:33:34] Seth: A lot of people we talk to, it's like, Hey, what is your cost per gram or cost of production per pound? I'll get the same answer from a few people, from the same person over like, or not the same, a different answer from the same person over a month as they just are doing more and more math. About where they're spending their money.

[00:33:53] Seth: The more they look into it, they go, okay, well I wasn't accounting for this. I wasn't accounting for that. And then they start to look at like, [00:34:00] right back to what Jason said. Say their environment and go, Hey, my heat fluctuates a lot throughout the day. What am I doing there?

[00:34:05] Jason: Yeah. And I'd just love to re reiterate the importance of long term data logging.

[00:34:09] Jason: Obviously when we're doing indoor rooms, we have pretty reliable sessions, cycle to cycle. We have a fairly close idea of what we can run, so we can create that outline of our expected cost pretty easily. Now, would love to be able to do that when I started growing in greenhouses here in eastern Washington.

[00:34:27] Jason: Obviously we have pretty [00:34:30] significant seasons and the first year I had absolutely no idea what we were gonna get into, when yeah. December hit, what was our gas bill gonna look like? How much was I gonna have to operate specific equipment like lights to keep up with supplemental needs of the plants?

[00:34:43] Jason: And so after after capturing that the first year, it was. very helpful to, to look back 12 months and say here's what our expectation is as we come into winter. Here's just some of the adjustments that we need to make to keep as best a product that, that we can

[00:34:59] Seth: grow in these [00:35:00] facilities. Yeah.

[00:35:01] Seth: And just, quantifying it outside of just the bill too. Yes. Being able to relate, like, okay, we spent that much and here's the results we got. We had good environmental regulation, or Wow, last year we really struggled and we paid a lot of money. What does that mean? We need to improve. But how so if you don't have the data to look back on, it's gonna be, not impossible, but a lot of experimentation's gonna be involved in trying to get that recipe in what works in a room or facility.

[00:35:29] Seth: Correct. . [00:35:30]

[00:35:32] Kaisha: Awesome. Great answer. Thank you for that. Daniel, you have anything you wanna add to that or any personal insight? Yeah,

[00:35:37] Daniel: no he nailed it. Yes.

[00:35:40] Kaisha: Excellent. Agree. All right, we're gonna go back and forth. Mandy, I'm coming. I'm sending it over to you. What's going on YouTube?

[00:35:45] Mandy: Yeah. Thanks for all the questions over there on YouTube.

[00:35:47] Mandy: Everyone Bruce Leaf wants to know I love that name. When feeding in two gallon cocoa bags, are you looking for a percentage of runoff during each shot feeding?

[00:35:59] Jason: Not [00:36:00] necessarily. The rule of thumb that I go for when I look at runoff is how much my trying to impact my substrate ec, right?

[00:36:08] Jason: And obviously that's gonna depend a little bit on what our feed ec is as well. And so typically more runoff is gonna either stabilize or decrease your ec slightly more, less runoff, or no runoff at all is gonna start to let it rise up. Now I've worked with some people that. Have a really good input of their nutrient balance, and they don't necessarily even have to run runoff [00:36:30] in two gallon cocoas and they've making a great product and being very successful at it.

[00:36:34] Jason: That being said, obviously traditionally everyone's usually more comfortable with a little bit of runoff, and I do always recommend a little bit of runoff at least after a couple of your P two events. So obviously through P one we don't need runoff. As we are trying to maintain our water content, it's nice.

[00:36:50] Jason: Get runoff just so you can take some pH measurements and check what your nutrient balance

[00:36:55] Seth: looks like. Yeah, I mean, you know where I like to start that, especially with say, a new [00:37:00] strain or something is going in and say, and looking at my graph and say, what is Mai doing? Are we getting, is it rising quite a bit?

[00:37:07] Seth: Do I need to modulate that and bring it into, do I need some runoff to maintain day-to-day? Do I need to limit runoff to raise it? And usually what I'll do is start at about, 10 to 15% of that last shot is runoff. And then go see what it did on the graph. The unfortunate part of it is I'm not gonna see.

[00:37:23] Seth: That total result until, the next morning before I water and I can see how high my ECS risen. And then the important thing is to [00:37:30] note that and say, okay, we might not even be talking percentages as much. Once we get down to irrigation program, we're gonna say, Hey, give it an extra 20 seconds, give it an extra 30 seconds.

[00:37:39] Seth: What did we do yesterday? Well let's stop it from rising . We kept it, stable and then you gotta dial it, with your system and with your plants. Cuz some plants it's not gonna be uniform. Some eat quite a bit or uptake, some don't.

[00:37:52] Jason: Yeah. And one of the reasons that some of the most successful cultivators are.

[00:37:56] Jason: Really patient people is that they understand just that [00:38:00] exactly, that if I make a change right now, I may not see an impact from that change until it's too late to make another change to either counter my first decision. And a lot of people have chased their tails in this industry by trying to read and make day-to-day improvements on what what they're seeing from the garden right then.

[00:38:21] Jason: And by capturing data over grow cycle, we can think about what what consistency. Over that that grow cycle looked like. [00:38:30] And, maybe let's make a change for the next heart risk group rather than altering midstream on this one. So,

[00:38:37] Seth: exactly. If I've got that data right there, I can look back at my EC throughout a whole run and then I note it and say, here's how much runoff I plan for today.

[00:38:44] Seth: Or I look at my irrigation schedule and go, this is what I ran. This is what happened again, right back to repeat it or don't . And then eventually as a cultivator, this is part of where things being so cyclical are kind of a good thing. It becomes intuitive. You get very used to how your irrigation [00:39:00] responds to your control commands and what it's actually gonna deliver.

[00:39:04] Seth: And at that point, it's usually pretty easy to, make those small day-to-day choices to keep you where you want to be. .

[00:39:12] Jason: It's easy as long as you're monitoring it. Yeah.

[00:39:14] Seth: Good habits. Yeah. At the end of the day it's always gonna take people like Dan that have passion and go in there and actually care about what the plants look like and how they're doing.

[00:39:22] Seth: I can show you examples of beautiful graphs and dead plants. . Oh wow. Well, dead at the end. , it all looked good [00:39:30] until they went to ripen, let's say. Just cuz it so obsessed with one line and throwing out like, oh, what does the plant look like? I don't want burnt leaves really ever. I don't, you can't know nothing about the plants and expect to have success.

[00:39:43] Seth: You've gotta take some time and learn.

[00:39:45] Daniel: That's strain. Didn't want it that aggressive . Exactly. Yep.

[00:39:51] Mandy: They're all so unique. Thank you for that question Bruce. Yeah, I'm gonna actually pass it back to Kaisha cause we have a ton of questions.

[00:39:58] Kaisha: On fire today. Yeah, [00:40:00] love that conversation. The grower's always gonna be important to the process, so, all right, moving on to Bilbo's second question.

[00:40:07] Kaisha: Love this one is a good one. What environmental control systems do the client success managers at AROYA commonly see deployed in facilities?

[00:40:15] Jason: Well, I really like how Bilbo worded this as what do we see commonly deployed rather than what do we like? , I see a lot of Argus and Preva and some of the bigger dedicated builds, especially on the east coast.

[00:40:29] Jason: Some of [00:40:30] the retrofitted warehouses, some troll master type stuff. Even independent thermostats, humidistat running on the walls. Sometimes, a collage of some of the Titan control equipment. So piece by piece, I think we talked a little bit in the last couple weeks about, how control systems and, how some can be implemented device by device trying to control a specific aspect.

[00:40:52] Jason: And then some are more widespread where we're a system controller, like a building management system. . .

[00:40:57] Seth: Yeah, I mean it really, typically we see [00:41:00] a lot of troll master and small to medium size grows, and then above, usually around 15,000 square feet. And depending on what kind of space they're retrofitting, that's also a big part of it is what kind of power they had available.

[00:41:12] Seth: Some people are fortunate to move into facilities that, although they weren't for grand cannabis already have a good electrical system to really build a good air handling system on top of, or they already had a good air handling system, they just don't have to keep it as cold. Now, let's say if you're in like a frozen P facility or something before [00:41:30] that.

[00:41:30] Seth: So it, it really just depends on what the building looks like and what their budget looks like going in. It's always gonna be cheaper to buy a troll master set for like, buy a dedicated setup for a given room and replicate that than it is gonna be to go, a custom PLC route and have everything custom made for your facility now, is that what the ideal thing might be?

[00:41:50] Seth: Yes, but in practical application, we've all gotta stay on budget. And just because you have something at a certain price point, as long as you can [00:42:00] get it to work reliably and you know the limitations of that equipment, it's not a huge problem. A lot of people have really good success with troll master and hey, people were growing great weed with mechanical timers for just about everything for a lot of years.

[00:42:15] Jason: That's exactly right. But you know, it's funny when you said what kind of building that they're retrofit in. One of my first really big installs when we were researching AROYA was in a meat processing facility. , they had been using it, and so they were all freezers for the rooms and like [00:42:30] fridges, cool rooms.

[00:42:30] Jason: And I was like, wow, I actually have a pretty good infrastructure for running this without retrofitting. Yeah. .

[00:42:37] Seth: Yeah. They can just throw some lights in and they already got way, way more cooling capacity and air movement than they need. Yep. Not to mention sanitization, insulated walls. Yeah. Yeah. Dan

[00:42:47] Daniel: know you were saying something.

[00:42:49] Daniel: Oh, that, that would be pretty cool to walk into, blank slate like that. Like Oh yeah. Just a bunch of empty refrigerator rooms. , .

[00:42:57] Seth: Yeah. [00:43:00] It's, those are unfortunately rare. Those kind of retrofits. Yeah. . I haven't seen a whole lot of those, although there's been some interesting ones, that's for sure.

[00:43:08] Seth: Well, and you run into weird things, if you have low ceilings, if you have, there's all kinds of compromises and a lot of these retrofits and with the state of the industry right now in terms of banking, I think it'll be a while before you can go take out a cheap 10 million loan to build out a mid-size facility.

[00:43:27] Seth: It's, right now it's hard to get a loan. It's gonna [00:43:30] take you 10 years to pay off. And cannabis and with the volatility in the industry, that's not necessarily something you want either.

[00:43:37] Daniel: Yeah. Seems like that. That'd be the only one making money is the lender at that point.

[00:43:42] Seth: Wait. Well, and hopefully , a lot of lenders might have some problems if they got too wild with it right now, but it's helping build, I think for the businesses that are survi surviving and being successful, generally speaking, that's forcing them to make a lot of responsible business choices [00:44:00] and take their expenditures way more seriously than if they had access to like, oh, we messed up, we'll just take an operating loan this year.

[00:44:07] Seth: They're like, no this is the world. We have to have rea, real estate or something real for collateral here you. .

[00:44:15] Kaisha: Yeah. This industry is nothing if not resourceful, that's for sure. . All right, Mandy sending it over to you for YouTube.

[00:44:21] Mandy: Awesome. Yeah. I think Dyan popped in and popped back out.

[00:44:24] Mandy: I was about to ask this question. So yeah, Dyan wanted to know can I feed with [00:44:30] 4.1 and still ? Can I feed with 4.1 and still see diff deficiency pH 6.2 ? This is like really hard. Can you guys actually see this chat? Can you see the information that's in here?

[00:44:42] Jason: No, maybe, oh, in Google Chat. Yeah. Can I feed with 4.1 and still see deficiencies?

[00:44:49] Jason: So basically what he is talking about here is nutrient ec feeding at 4.1. They're seeing, I'm assuming a runoff of 6.2 indicating a slight imbalance [00:45:00] in pH. Obviously we have to assume that they're running it probably a 5.6 to 5.8 on the input pH. So really not huge imbalance. Big questions here, we don't know about would be, what is the What is the light source and what specific nutrient line and or mixture is being used?

[00:45:18] Jason: The cement planter is, yes, you could see some deficiencies. That being said, with a good nutrient blend probably not gonna be running any very many deficiencies. 4.1 is definitely on [00:45:30] the higher end of what what we work with as far as VDC is going. At pH 6.2, I wouldn't get really concerned.

[00:45:37] Jason: I think as usual you'll hear us say if you do have concerns, then get a tap relief tissue analysis and break it down the scientific way. Even the smartest people in the industry have troubles spotting or reading leaf responses to a specific element

[00:45:53] Seth: in the balance.

[00:45:54] Seth: Absolutely. I mean, honestly, my first step there, Dyan, would be to get ahold of something like the Solis and start to try to get some [00:46:00] time series data. Like doing it 24 times a day or something's probably unrealistic. But if you can do it right before and right after your P one s and then do it again at the end of the day, before you are out of the room, try to get an idea of what your EC is actually doing.

[00:46:13] Seth: That 4.1 feed is less important than what the EC state is in the media itself. So like if you're me, if in your media you're ranging from a nine to a 16, doesn't matter if you're feeding 3.0 or 4.1 or whatever, that EC is already [00:46:30] higher. So one of the big questions is if we're looking at deficiencies, , how much runoff are you running?

[00:46:35] Seth: Is it being washed back close to 4.1? Pretty frequently? Is that what we have going on here? Is the EC actually really high? You can push high ec quite a ways before we actually hit toxicity, and typically we'll hit osmotic problems before we hit toxicity. So without knowing what's going on in the block, it's really hard to say.

[00:46:54] Seth: If your pH is rising, like Jason said, you're feeding a 5.6 to a 5.9 and you're coming out at 6.2. [00:47:00] We're looking at a plant that's not feeding very much, and that could be for a variety of reasons. And it can, like Jason said, depend on light nutrient line you're running. We could even depend partially on V P D.

[00:47:12] Seth: There's a lot of factors. If anything is outta line in the environment, you're not gonna expect a plant to uptake. in a normal expected fashion without really diving into what kind of fluctuations you're seeing throughout the day. And again, what Jason said, it's, it can be very tough to tell the difference between a deficiency, a [00:47:30] toxicity, a pH swing.

[00:47:32] Seth: If our pH is too low or too high, we essentially have a deficiency. But we don't, in terms of, what what available element or what elements are there, they're just not available. If my pH is up by seven or not up by seven, like let's say down by five or 4.8, and I'm early on, in stretch, I'm already that low man, it might look like I really need to get more fertilizer on there.

[00:47:54] Seth: Like it's getting yellow and deficient. Well, maybe I already have plenty of nitrogen in there. My, my pH is just too low. I [00:48:00] can't take it up. It's not locked out. It's not burnt. It's not even actually deficient. I just, I created that low pH state early on, and now I'm seeing a health-wise deficiency in the plant.

[00:48:12] Seth: But again, it's not a deficiency in my fertilization. It's a pH problem. .

[00:48:16] Jason: Yeah. And there's some really good resources out there that can kind of help you get used to or anybody get used to some of the basics as far as how these interactions are. And that's a, a nutrient solubility chart.

[00:48:28] Jason: It's basically pH from [00:48:30] low to high, and it talks about the different elements in how much solubility. Usually they'll have some either square boxes or some trapezoidal type lines that indicate, all right, here's how much nitrogen could be uptake at this specific ec, and or excuse me, at this specific pH.

[00:48:44] Jason: And then you go down the list and it'll have phosphorus and potassium and boron and iron and all that types of stuff. And another one there is what is it? Muller's chart that talks about some of the nutrient Relationships as far as which ones kind of [00:49:00] prevent other nutrients from being uptakes and which ones actually increase the uptake of other nutrients.

[00:49:04] Jason: So those are some good resources that you can dig into. And I'm sure if you're like me, you'll end up at like 2:00 AM after clicking on 35 links and reading something completely off topic. But you look to know a lot more about that section of

[00:49:17] Seth: cultivation. Yeah.

[00:49:18] Seth: And even, honestly, in terms of pH you don't even really need to look at cannabis or hydroponic specific sources if you wanna know what's going on with the plant and its interaction with nutrients around it. Like [00:49:30] we've been putting lime and soil for well over 4,000 years, they've been putting gypsum on soil for well over 4,000 years.

[00:49:36] Seth: And it's the same basic principles we're talking about right here, getting the soil or getting the nutrient solution pH in range to have efficient uptake.

[00:49:45] Jason: Yeah. That being said, it is specific for types of substrate as far as those pH salability charts. Yes. So if you're working in something like soil, usually you'll see I'll do a range towards that seven oh range.

[00:49:57] Jason: If you're looking at cocoa, then typically, it'll be [00:50:00] around that six range plus or minus some, and then a lot of times rock will be down towards that five six. So make sure that the chart that you are looking at is applicable to the media that you're growing

[00:50:10] Seth: in. Yes. Yeah, definitely.

[00:50:12] Seth: Thanks for bringing that up. I guess what I was getting at more is just the science behind, it's not new in terms of pH relationship with specific plant elements or plant essential elements. Here we go.

[00:50:23] Mandy: Awesome. Thank you guys for that. And Dyan, sorry for butchering your question but this is why these guys are the pros.

[00:50:29] Mandy: So yeah, I think we have some [00:50:30] live questions, so I'm gonna pass it back to Kaisha.

[00:50:32] Kaisha: Thanks Mandy. Yeah, we're gonna go just a few minutes longer here since we got a little bit of a late start. Asking Bilbo's third question here. Moving toward recipes, do you think that the annotation features are more powerful than the time outside of a specific range out?

[00:50:48] Jason: So for me, the annotations make that outta spec powerful. And I, I think the most generic example that I use that has happened to probably almost anyone that's [00:51:00] watching this is dehumidifier going out and seeing that humidifier go, or that humidity go way up. Well, if we put an annotation in there, someone saw it happen, someone read the graph and went and checked it, that it got fixed the next day, rather than having a plant response and then trying to work down the mystery of, what happened.

[00:51:16] Jason: Another great example of this is some of the same thing, humidity lights off humidity spike. So a lot of times with h p s we're. Quite a bit of the humidity off just from the heat produced and the lights. And when we turn those off, a lot of times [00:51:30] our humidity will spike right up. Well, let's make an annotation on that and adjust that timeframe.

[00:51:34] Jason: Let's kick the de Hume on maybe 30 minutes before lights off. Well, it took us lower than we wanted, so let's move that to 15 minutes. And so annotations for me, they're what give a human readable attribute to the data, right? Why did this happen? A lot of times that's gonna be an afterthought, but what continuous improvement does is allows you to build stabilized systems by analyzing the [00:52:00] issues you've run into.

[00:52:01] Seth: Yeah, I got, actually got a great example from a few weeks ago around the top of my head from that one spraying. I saw a great picture, what happened to my plants when I look back at the graph about four days before and see a huge humidity swing. , did you guys spray? Did you spray Newcomb ? Is it the ends of the benches?

[00:52:18] Seth: Is it like, let's go through it and like, oh, okay. Alright. So if we didn't have the annotation though, I'd go like, wow, what's the swing? Otherwise guys, I don't know, like usually humidity swing wouldn't cause that. But what that told [00:52:30] me was, Hey, something was sprayed on. I'm gonna ask about that because at certain points, depending on what's being sprayed, and especially in certain states or countries where different things are not okay to spray, if I know a grower might be relying hard on a certain pesticide, like I love to use, any citric acid treatment as an example, the difference between be that being used as a pesticide and herbicide is just dosage.

[00:52:53] Seth: The dosage makes the poison. So , there's all of always little things to look back at. I think Jason captured it [00:53:00] perfectly there. Annotation gives that data power. You can actually act on it or not act on it. Knowledge

[00:53:09] Kaisha: is power. Right? All right, Mandy, I think we have one more question from YouTube.

[00:53:13] Kaisha: Take it away. Yeah.

[00:53:15] Mandy: Thank you guys for all the shoutouts over there too. Iron Armor wants to know what's the best way to apply leaf tissue samples to your irrigation and nutrient program.

[00:53:27] Seth: So wait, , build [00:53:30] out that profile. Wait until the end of your run and look back and see if you, and also, I always like to say this. Pictures. If you are already taking leaf tissue analysis and you're doing it regularly throughout a run with a different strain, take a picture of that strain every single time you take a leaf cutting from it.

[00:53:47] Seth: Take a picture of that plant and start to associate those values with overall plant health. And that's the best way you're gonna see improvements if you go Okay. And the hard part, again, when we're talking about leaf tissue analysis, if [00:54:00] we look at other crops, These tests were done. Thousands and thousands of times over and over with the same varieties, grown across several different environments, and then data corrected to actually look at what kind of results we're getting.

[00:54:13] Seth: So are they useful? Absolutely. See what's going on in there, but you need to look at a whole run before you're ever able to make a plant nutrition choice change. ,

[00:54:24] Jason: Ken, one thing for me when I am starting to get into some pretty [00:54:30] complicated stuff like associating leaf tissue analysis with making nutrient adjustments I start to, to lose some of my data.

[00:54:37] Jason: And one of the best things you can do is just start attributing your harvest groups. So when we can look back at what our strains performed like and what modifications we made, we can kind of keep our brain straight as far as, what all went into this harvest group. So, and we've got a good area for taking pictures in there.

[00:54:53] Jason: You can upload, leave tissue analysis into to those annotations as well. And just do your best to [00:55:00] collectively get that information into one place. So things that your team's taken on a daily basis as a digital grow journal. Some of those more advanced techniques like employing.

[00:55:10] Jason: Tissue analysis, making nutrient modifications. Just try and collaborate it so that the clues all work together to

[00:55:18] Seth: give you the full picture. Absolutely. And, go through it and establish basically some KPIs. Know that like, Hey, after I've, if I've done tissue analysis on this strain, let's say three runs, I'm looking at [00:55:30] nitrogen indication at week three or four, how high, how much nitrogen have I built up?

[00:55:34] Seth: I'm looking for a few key things at a few certain points because, okay, let's say I'm not super happy with the numbers I'm seeing on my micros. Okay, well that might not mean a whole, change in fertilizer. I might just have to raise the EC a little. or razor lower my pH. So although those are important, the big thing we're looking for is specific goals to achieve and then repl relating that to plant health.

[00:55:59] Seth: If I see a plant [00:56:00] that's yellow or it's got, some clear magnesium deficiency or something, then I see that reflected in the numbers. Boom, there we go. But I would honestly, with the state of fertilizer on the market right now, I would kind of discourage a lot of people from trying to delve too far into that and making day-to-day adjustments, compile that data.

[00:56:18] Seth: And once you've got quite a bit, look back, there's a, you need a lot of it to make it statistically significant.

[00:56:25] Mandy: Awesome. Thank you guys for that. And I believe that's it for YouTube for [00:56:30] today. And we are all about out of time right now, so, yeah, I will pass it back over

[00:56:33] Kaisha: to ke. Awesome. Mandy, thank you so much Daniel.

[00:56:36] Kaisha: Thank you so much for coming on the show.

[00:56:39] Daniel: Thank you for having

[00:56:40] Kaisha: me. Yeah, no, really cool to hear your story. We love hearing from growers doing it out there, so just wishing you continued success and since we're both in the bay, we're gonna have to meet up in Oakland some time. Yes. All right. And then as usual, Seth and Jason, thank you for your expertise.

[00:56:55] Kaisha: Thank you for another great conversation. Any other, anything else you wanna say before we

[00:56:58] Jason: go? [00:57:00] Just another huge thanks to

[00:57:00] Seth: Dan. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show, man. Really appreciate it. Round

[00:57:06] Kaisha: of applause. And Mandy, my co moderator, thank you as usual for helping me hold it down. Thanks to everybody who joined us this week for Office Hours.

[00:57:15] Kaisha: We do this every Thursday. Best way to get answers from the experts, as you can tell, is to join us live. If you're looking to learn more about AROYA, be sure to book a demo with us and our experts will walk you through all the ways it can be used to improve your cultivation pro production process. But as always, if there's a [00:57:30] topic you'd like covered on a future episode of Office Hours, post any time via the AROYA Out.

[00:57:35] Kaisha: Feel free to drop ideas in the chat. Send us an email at support.aroya@metergroup.com or send us a DM over all the socials. We are everywhere. We wanna hear from you. We record every session. We will email everyone in attendance link to the video. It'll also be on the AROYA YouTube channel, like subscribe and share while you're there.

[00:57:51] Kaisha: And if you find these conversations helpful, spread the word. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time. Have

[00:57:56] Daniel: a great day. Bye.