Note: AI-generated. Terms may vary.

OHL TX 55
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[00:00:00] Kaisha: All right. It's four it's Thursday, 4:20 PM. Eastern. That means it's time for office hours. Your for your source for free cannabis cultivation education. I am Kaisha and I am your co-moderator right moderator today. I also can't talk. How are you doing today, Mandy?

[00:00:17] Mandy: Hey, Kaisha. We've had a long day, but it's going well. We're here for episode 55.

[00:00:22] Mandy: Oh, my gosh. You'll know how we do. We're going five over on YouTube. So if you're logging on over there, make sure you send us your questions and I'll make [00:00:30] sure I get those to the team. If you're active on social media, make sure you're also following us on all the platforms. So we're on Instagram, Tik, TOK, YouTube, LinkedIn, and social club.

[00:00:41] Mandy: But I think we have a special guest with us on the show. So for those formal introductions, before our Q and a, I'm going to pass it back to

[00:00:48] Kaisha: you. Kaisha. Fantastic. Mandy, thank you so much. That's why I'm so tongue tied. We have a special guest today, but before we get to that, just remind everybody who's on with us live here. Do you have any question? Feel free to type it in the chat at any time. If your question gets picked, we'll [00:01:00] either have you on mute yourself or I can ask for you, Seth and Jason.

[00:01:03] Kaisha: How's it going guys?

[00:01:06] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Pretty

[00:01:06] Kaisha: good day. Good to see you. All right. Well, who's in the virtual building

[00:01:10] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): today.

[00:01:10] Jason: Dylan from grisly farms, PDX and. Really excited to have him here on the show. It's I think my first time meeting with you, Dylan. So, really good to make the acquaintance and.

[00:01:19] Jason: We're stoked to hear your

[00:01:20] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): story. Appreciate you. I've seen you from afar. Definitely with some good insight. I've worked with Seth a little bit more. I don't know what unlucky card he. But he got assigned [00:01:30] to us kind of in the beginning, I picked up. Picked up. And it was super, super helpful, but yeah every time I tune into the show, I always learn a lot and I'm super grateful to get invited on it.

[00:01:39] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You working

[00:01:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): right on.

[00:01:44] Jason: So we just start booting it off, get a little discussion opened up and And a roll with it here. Yeah.

[00:01:48] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You want

[00:01:49] Kaisha: to just dive into some questions and then Dylan, I'd love to hear your insights and your experience since we got. Sound good.

[00:01:55] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah. Yeah. Whenever you need. Okay. I'm

[00:01:57] Kaisha: going to pull the first one here from Instagram. This one [00:02:00] came from daybreak. He wrote in, Hey guys, seeing tip burn and week two, low ECE and substrate two to three by drying back from 50% to 20% daily. Any

[00:02:11] Seth: advice?

[00:02:12] Seth: It sounds like your plants are quite deficient. And probably a little bit water stressed. If you're going back too far, depending on what medium you get you're in. And. Whether we're talking about volumetric water, content or saturation. If you're driving back from 50% saturation to 20%. Yeah. We got a big problem.

[00:02:29] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah. And [00:02:30] the medium that's immediately. What I'm kind of thinking too, is when I'm running those, maybe higher, easy strategies, you're looking at 3.0. A lot of times I'll get that burn happening from that dry back, not necessarily from the ISI or feeding app, but just letting it get a little bit too hot on that drive back.

[00:02:45] Jason: It sounded like that was substrate ECE at two or three, right.

[00:02:53] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I was just thinking.

[00:02:54] Jason: Typically by week three, I'm going to see that easy substantially higher than something like two or three in the [00:03:00] substrate itself. And so I think that's kind of, one of the routes that Seth was going here is we're probably underfeeding to some degree that plant is using up more nutrients than is available in the substrate.

[00:03:10] Jason: Make sure you're checking your pH. Like that's one of the easiest ways to know that, Hey, we're running out of one of the supplemental factories, one of the ions that, that. It needs an and so, even if that low, maybe your pH might be balanced and they're running out of everything.

[00:03:24] Seth: Yeah. And. I was going to say, Jason, that's the first thing. What's your pH? Because a lot of times when we are in [00:03:30] that low ISI range and the plants taking up so much fertilizer load. You run off might be down to like 5.1 5.2. And at that point, not only do we have low AC in the block, but low nutrient availability overall to lock-in.

[00:03:44] Seth: Wow. Yep. And it's a plan that, So those two weeks, it should be growing super vigorously. It should be using a lot of nutrients, that plan. And typically that's one of the hardest parts about this generative steer, right? Is traditionally, even outside of cannabis, talking about having a for EEC.

[00:03:59] Seth: In the root [00:04:00] zone. It seemed kind of wild for, not so much plant physiology reasons, but a cost. Every other part of agriculture we want to minimize costs. So we're breeding plants to use the minimum amount of fertilizer. Rather than what they can actually take. So.

[00:04:16] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I think like huge into it too. I think you nailed it. When I'm troubleshooting things, it's hard sometimes to get off. One, one thing I'm thinking different. What I generally try to do is look at multiple plans. In the zone. And is it the bigger plant doing it [00:04:30] more of the smaller plant? Maybe take a couple runoff readings.

[00:04:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And that can help kind of steer you in the right direction and all the big plans for crushing and happy. And all the smaller plans start, not then that can help kind of indicate. As well, a lot of people look at one plant and kind of don't get a big thick. I feel like it's always helpful when I'm in trouble.

[00:04:50] Seth: Oh, absolutely. You got in the room and you see that variation on the table and you go immediately like, okay, let's go pull, look at all of our variables that we've got pony sampling. We can. [00:05:00] Visually, I already know these plants need to be treated differently. So. Now I can make the choice. Can I treat that plant differently or do we have

[00:05:07] Seth: Zoning and consistency

[00:05:08] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): problem. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that,

[00:05:11] Jason: Seth always reiterated says. You usually can't, unburn some leaves. So take pictures. What that's looking like right now. Make some of those improvement based on your evaluation in there, and then take a picture of after you have some changes that you see those.

[00:05:26] Jason: Cells that have already gone through some necrotic development. [00:05:30] Are not going to come back to life. So just keep in mind that, take a look at the new growth. Is it undergoing the same type of outward expression? That needs to be evaluated more. Did you fix the wrong thing or have we cleared through the issue? And we know.

[00:05:43] Jason: How to avoid any of that in the next

[00:05:44] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): run. I think that's great advice too. A lot of times when I'm helping people. Medium's really important, but kind of dumbed down. I'm always like things move slower and third things move a little quicker and Coco. Things move really quick. And Rockwool.

[00:05:58] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So when you're [00:06:00] diagnosing problems, say it's a soil problem and you go to correct a deficiency and you're looking for that correction to happen the next day. You're probably looking to suit. And so giving it the time to actually do what it needs to do, versus rockwool, you might, adjust your pH and your EDC with a nice flush. And within two or three days, you're going to be seeing the results of that. Correct.

[00:06:19] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): A lot quicker than you would in another medium. So I find a lot of people are chasing their tails. We care so much about the plants, whether it's on a small scale or a large scale, it's easy to go in and [00:06:30] over-correct, and then not see exactly what that correction was. That overcorrect again, the other way.

[00:06:34] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And kind of find yourself chasing your tail rather than fighting that correction, working. Dylan

[00:06:40] Kaisha: you dove right in with that one. Can we let's go back in time a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your cultivation background, how you got into it. And then I would love to hear about your setup today. What are you working with up

[00:06:49] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): there?

[00:06:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a great segue. I kind of started off very. Very typical ocean forest guy, big pots, Fox farm ocean forest. [00:07:00] Even water feeding teas. Single ended air cooled basements. Vividly, remember having houses with the windows, getting sucked in from the vent fans.

[00:07:09] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And people being like, why is your floor heated? But your house is really cold. And well, because there's 30 lights downstairs and my windows are getting stuck in. From the negative pressure. So, Came from that. And thankfully it going back to mine, we were talking a little before we came on my dad getting on my head about screens and using those for pipes [00:07:30] and things like that. I'm like the sockets with the pipes.

[00:07:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It came out after he got on my head about smoking, but I found out later on that he actually grew as well. Kind of back in the day before there was strain names, you're calling the green, the perms, the yellow, Pulling halogen bulbs and. E without going into too much detail, I'm not comparing him out, but got into some trouble for doing stuff. Probably a little too big and being a hippie dead guy,

[00:07:53] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): but yeah, I got blessed to kind of get his knowledge, which was really simple and straightforward. And back in the day, you [00:08:00] didn't really have much resource to learn how to grow. Now I think we have the opposite problem. You have so many people that are doing this, and there's so many different ways to do it.

[00:08:09] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): That you can get kind of overwhelmed, with the amount of data. If you don't have a solid foundation. But yeah, I started off in big pots and dirt. Had a lot of success, keeping it simple. Running into my, running into PM, figuring out how to combat those days. I've always said, a good grower, someone who learns how to overcome problems, not someone who hasn't dealt with them.

[00:08:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): But transitioned that at the same time, I had a [00:08:30] really good friend who was growing in Canada and Coco and kind of had that like kind of next level Dutch, nutrient program kind of thing going on. And so we got tap rooms together that would have. Ocean forest with water and teas next to Canna, Coco.

[00:08:44] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And kind of see the difference in how those plants eat and drive back and those genetic expressions. And I never really stopped. Rolling. So I kind of just kept it up. There was like a year pause there maybe three or four years ago. But I've always had something [00:09:00] going on, whether it's a 10 lighter at the spot or stepped into consulting.

[00:09:03] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I worked at indoor garden Depot for about two years. And I think similar, like talking with Seth, I see he has such advantage where he's talking to a ton of growers. And when you work at a garden store, similarly, it kind of. A lot of, I used to always say like old man McGregor grows the best weed, the way he doesn't want us back yard.

[00:09:23] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And you see that working at a grocery store where. People get stuck in their own ways because they came from that place [00:09:30] where they learn from one person. They know that's how they're going to have success. And now they're going to do it. And working at the grocery store kind of opened up my mind to, wow, there's 20 people doing this 20 ways and they're all crushing it in their own way. And that was like the days of supernatural, was that.

[00:09:44] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): GoTo salt thing. Then you'd have the ocean forest guys still are that you got to mix your own TGA, super soil guys. And. So I saw that kind of wave. And then before I came on here at grizzly, I was actually working as the commercial accounts manager. At bloom garden supply. So similar [00:10:00] thing, helping set up some of those bigger grows, helping people, truck troubleshoot. A lot of it was like, you don't have enough DQ.

[00:10:05] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Things like that. But seeing. It's being a lot of different ways to do it. So that kind of led to where I'm at today, which is running this farm. And we're all on rockwool here. We're running the it's funny. They've changed the name. Like Rodin's really good at this, but the baby mama blocks or the unit blocks.

[00:10:21] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): They're eight by four. Open tops and we're putting fours were basically clones to they call them a gr 6.5, but it's a [00:10:30] four. By four by 2.5. So kind of a shorty block and we stack those on top of our unit blocks. Which has been a curve, and that was, I had a couple calls with Seth.

[00:10:40] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Getting into a Roy and. Adopting this program. And my crops during, before that was more troll master. Which gets you some data points, but when you look at it, like trying to compare, like a daggum strategy or something like that with a sensor, that's just, the numbers are so different. You get an idea of it, but it's not the same.

[00:10:58] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So I stepped in and to be [00:11:00] honest, I was very questioning Roy in the program. The sensors and, Seth said a bunch of stuff that I was just kinda like, wow, that's really not what I'm used to hearing, and It's funny because the more cycles we flipped I was telling you guys earlier where every 17 days we do a harvest. So there's been a lot of cycles in a short amount of time.

[00:11:18] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): More and more things that says set in those original conversations has come to light and like, oh, that, you know what I mean? Keeping your capacity up to this point or. All these different things kind of come to play. So [00:11:30] it feels like different. When I talk about coming from the air cooled, single ended, and now where we're at with data and crop steering and Rockwall and.

[00:11:38] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Just the level of genetics that we work with. The level that the rooms are at. So it's been a long ride, but it kind of. Pretty quick. It feels like.

[00:11:48] Seth: It's pretty wild. If you're to sit down and count up how many how many crops you've grown in your life. Right. Yeah. We don't have anything right now, but really like, think about it. If you go back like even 10 years, you're like, wow.

[00:11:58] Seth: That is. I think [00:12:00] that's one thing that kind of gets. Like Jason will sometimes say like, yeah, there's not a whole lot of research on this or that. One cool thing about this crop is that, in most of these girls, when you've got multiple rooms going, like you said, every 17 days,

[00:12:12] Seth: Going down replanting. Like you get to see results. Boom. Boom boom. It doesn't take years. The biggest thing that's lacking in the industry right now, or has been up until recently. Is proper documentation. And having access to the tools and then the confidence to be able to actually publish that stuff,

[00:12:29] Seth: we went from [00:12:30] like,

[00:12:32] Seth: Say tomatoes over and over with quotation marks. Right? Yup. Now we can go out some actual numbers relating to a specific plant and

[00:12:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): no, I mean, and you make me think about like, it's such a typical grocery store conversation and sitting behind the counter, you always become kind of that trusted source for like, what do I do to solve this problem?

[00:12:53] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You know what, whatever it is, my plants look like this here, check it out. What is this? And it's so funny how confident people [00:13:00] have always been in my experience with like, this was the best crop ever. And this is why it turned out that way. And there's so many variables. I mean, like, Roy attracts a huge amount of them, but there's just so many to track that it's impossible to keep track of every little detail. And it's really like, it's interesting to me that people are so confident in what's going right and what's going wrong without a lot of that data to actually point out.

[00:13:26] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And uh, Roy has ruled you. A lot of those things out and [00:13:30] you can look at it and be like, well, this room, we hit this point here, or this was room, got hot a couple of times here, or we ran this room at three degrees higher in this room at three degrees lower. And this is how much that yield was, so.

[00:13:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): There's a lot to look at. Whereas, it's been such a world where everyone thinks they know it all without a lot of data to actually show that is, has kind of been my experience. And I've always been like, man, there's a thousand very. So, even down to the dry and the cure. That could be affecting that particular crop quality. It's not just [00:14:00] that particular nutrient wine that you switched to. That you've only used one time.

[00:14:04] Seth: Oh, yeah. That's a good point, dude, I've talked to quite a few, not a bunch of farms. Quite a few and it's like, man, you guys. I can tell you should be growing some fire. And they're like, man, we're just not getting the numbers we want. Like, well, what's your time from cut to jar. It's like 18 days. Like, okay, well we gotta change that guys. This is I know there's not as much literature out there yet, but within this industry that has existed for quite a while now.

[00:14:27] Seth: It isn't brand new. And the [00:14:30] drying part is I feel like something people have figured out a long time ago. Oh, yeah. Artisan level. And things like that, that timeline.

[00:14:37] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah. I mean, you smell it. So many times back in the day, you'd smell a plant on the vine before you cut it down. And you're like, oh, that's fire,

[00:14:45] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): it's just like one of the best things ever. And then three weeks later, you're sitting there like, putting it in your plastic bag, that was jars back in the day where the only way to do it when you were at that scale. I remember having just big, huge bunch of money. Now I'm being like, oh, this is so much more [00:15:00] time consuming.

[00:15:00] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): But really making a huge difference. And I've seen a lot of people. Mess that stuff up in the cure and in the drive, I either rushing and it's delicate because you can trap in that kind of wet, hae kind of green smell by going too quickly and not burping. Or, like in this season, it's really hard to keep things moist.

[00:15:19] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And so you, you were really dry out here, even in Portland where it rains. And you'll get to a place where you're, pop and toads and wow. One day it was there and the next day you're like, what the hell happened? So [00:15:30] open bottle of wine kind of concept.

[00:15:33] Kaisha: K the questions, Ellen.

[00:15:34] Kaisha: And I think you're raising some really good points around, like, not being attached to the old way of doing things. This is a, an industry that's really tied to kind of the old school. And I was just curious to know, like, what was it that was going on with you that made you realize, you know what, maybe I do need to go ahead and see what this Araya thing is about.

[00:15:51] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Well, I got blessed to step into this farm where they had it installed. So it was kinda like think Flint. You're gonna, we're paying a lot for this technology and the owners [00:16:00] here have been amazing. I feel really blessed. I've worked in quite a few different positions.

[00:16:04] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I'm in management positions in between owners and staff. And a lot of times it feels like you're getting pulled to directions, try to make the company successful, make, keep your employees happy. But also the owners want to do a million things that are kind of counterintuitive to that. The owners here really gave me a lot of rain, to the point where they're like, if you don't think we need a Roya, you know what I mean? Then?

[00:16:24] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Then tell us, and give us a good point to have that. And again, it was me coming from not having a lot of [00:16:30] experience with it and being like, do we really need it? But after running it, the way that I have, I really feel like it's been the key to being successful with rockwool, is I've done rockwool before, but I did not have a lot of experience with it.

[00:16:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And so being able to have kind of that foundation it's really helped me, in my goal was always step on this big ship where they're already successful. And make the right steps to get us better. But Knox gear it off the rails. And so that was, that's a challenge. A lot of times you want to take it and do too much too [00:17:00] soon. And thankfully I had that foundation of like, don't make a million changes at once. Let's change. One thing that we know is a problem at a time.

[00:17:07] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And let's, continue to get better every single cycle. But now that I've done, Roy, I think, especially with Rockwool, it's just like, we're not huge. We're, 120 lights flower, a give or take and four flower rooms. But at the scale, even at that scale, I talk with people all the time. I'm like 60 lights. Roy is going to pay for itself. You.

[00:17:28] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It may seem kind of expensive [00:17:30] upfront, but the data that you're, whether it saves a row for you, because it warned you in your pocket, a, that road is getting way to drive well that's money right there. Or whether you're taking it from that 2.5 to three, 3.5 pounds per light and not losing quality.

[00:17:45] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): To me that those kinds of things make a Roy extremely valuable. And I haven't seen. There's other platforms that try to do it. But what I like about Roy is I compare it sometimes because people have asked me, what do you think about this first? Yada, yada, their brand.

[00:17:59] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I kind of [00:18:00] feel like it's more like. And it's really like, it's silly to say, but it's really pretty. And it's really approachable. And especially with the split graph. So you guys are constantly updating things without breaking the system, which happens a lot in these kinds of things. I've found, you work with a POS system at a dispensary, they give you a hundred updates and one helps. And the other 99 cents back to where you're not buying.

[00:18:21] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So I was always nervous stepping into such a data-driven garden to be like, we're relying on this stuff on the cloud. And it's literally [00:18:30] given me no problems since I've been here. Minus like a day where Comcast was out. Or something like that. And even then I'm sitting there and I lose maybe a half hour window.

[00:18:38] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Of data and it's not the end of the world. So, but it's been key to helping bring our rockwool stuff up to the next level and really cut through a bunch of the noise in the conversations when we're making decisions with the owners. Hey, this is why we're doing this. Well, you think this is because of that. Let's actually look at this data and make an informed decision.

[00:18:58] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Which a lot of times that can [00:19:00] be. The biggest problem in a. In an organization. It's not the tools. It's not the plants. It's not even the people, but how you're communicating. And I think Roy has really helped with our communication, at least over here to really see that data and be able to apply it.

[00:19:15] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah. I don't know if that was a long-winded answer to that.

[00:19:21] Jason: I both completely relate to that. I. Ah, when I started cultivating, I didn't come in with a cannabis background. I came in with an electronics and technology [00:19:30] background and what I had to do start printing. Print and graphs off manually every day from our automation systems for HVAC systems go in.

[00:19:37] Jason: Things and it's like, Hey, this doesn't look right. I don't know if it was right for the plants or not, but it doesn't look right to how this graph should be. And then that's basically how I learned about the plants was, well, this is wrong, or this is right. This is. That blip in life is when we went to go spray. Alright, well, next time I know that we can recognize that instantly well flips too long or there's [00:20:00] other other indicators that it wasn't a spray let's go investigate was.

[00:20:04] Jason: Elect electrical issue was someone in there screwing around a light panel. What what needs to go up hill so that we can continuously improve the processes, whether it be what people are doing or doing to the plants or how our

[00:20:16] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): equipment is operating. Yup. 101 and you're not sitting there scratching your head, like it could be as simple as a light alarm.

[00:20:23] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And it just like, well, we had a light on for three or four days, because our DIII, wasn't talking with our little ethernet cable. [00:20:30] And, even something like, The troll master can help with that kind of stuff. But really seeing, with like Roy, what is our light intensity? What were we at? Instead of sitting there and I still mark on a calendar, I still am kind of no right notes, kind of guy. It just helps me to take that data to.

[00:20:45] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): But being able to look back and go, well, when, what did we start flower at? And with LEDs, I think it's even more important that ramp up that ramp down with percentages and what your PPFD is, can make a huge difference. And so having that kind of data, I think is just [00:21:00] it's everything.

[00:21:00] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And it doesn't take a huge scale for it to pay for itself. I'm not here to sell anything. I just. It gives me a peace of mind that it's priceless. When I'm sitting there and I'm like, right before I hopped on this call, I'm checking flower rooms. Oh, we got all our stuff watered and I can scroll through four flower rooms and look and see that the

[00:21:17] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Got done and the P twos. Or starting, and, I don't have to worry about that while I'm on a phone call. Which I think is huge, cause a lot of times I'll be like, hold on. Let me go. Make sure that my equipment is doing what it's supposed to be doing. Like you were just saying. Yeah, I don't

[00:21:29] Seth: hear that [00:21:30] dose to try and clicking. I'll be right back. Yes.

[00:21:33] Seth: Yeah. It

[00:21:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): seized up.

[00:21:35] Seth: Yup. Yeah, I was actually the facility of this sport against. So, what is all that clicking? I'm like, those are good noises.

[00:21:41] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): That's yeah. The click click got your back. I think.

[00:21:46] Seth: Great Dylan, which is like with rockwool, we hit this point where. Because we can make changes so fast. There's not a buffering capacity. Like we see with soil or even, slightly amended coco. Having the right tools is really key to bringing that consistency. And I think [00:22:00] that's what a lot of girls I've talked to that struggle with rockwool C is like, man.

[00:22:04] Seth: It just didn't have visibility on the fact that like, Hey, that one early, big, dry down and weak. Day 10 that we accidentally did, like, before as a man, what happened and now it's like, Nope, that killed our yield right there. That's why this. As a pound, a light. The last one was 3.8 was.

[00:22:19] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): When you did that with us, I remember having that conversation and you're able to pull up a graph remotely. And look and be like, what happened here? Or like what was going on with this? Which I thought was really [00:22:30] helpful. And the field capacity thing was kind of new for me.

[00:22:32] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Coming from the pot days, you lift up a pot. Oh, it's heavy. Oh, it dried back. Water, with rockwool, with the plants and a trellis, it's just not the same, you're trying to like lift a pot. That's completely captured in trellis netting and has a two, three pound plant attached to it.

[00:22:48] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It can be really hard to feel in sticking your finger in. It's just not the same. Yeah.

[00:22:53] Seth: Even if you're in coco, trying to get runoff sometimes, later in flower, once you're all in the trial S and. You'll try to pick [00:23:00] up a pot. And you move it two inches and nugs fall off. 100,

[00:23:03] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): 101.

[00:23:04] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): What's crazy. Two is the. You got me thinking on it. It's like looking at data over a week and give you a lot more information than just one data point run on. Instead of going into damage control mode, like we're talking about, okay, you have a problem, you need to do a runoff test. You need to figure out what the problem is and correct it.

[00:23:22] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You're able to kind of look ahead and go, well, My ECE is riding up how I'm used to it, riding up over the seven days. [00:23:30] Right. If you see that start to go up higher than you're used to over seven days, then that's probably a sign that you're overfeeding a little bit, especially when you get used to reading the graphs and you can see that happening, or it becomes a visible, like thing planet.

[00:23:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Versus sitting there and just constantly putting out fires, which you're going to do as a grower, no matter what, even if you have the right software. But I think it's a chain, it's a game changer to be able to see that kind of stuff, as it's happened or even before it happens.

[00:23:56] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So

[00:23:56] Jason: one of the interesting things that I hear from growers. [00:24:00] And when. It's usually passionate, really passionate people that have been grown a long time. And they'll say, Hey, I don't really want to be sitting on the computer, analyzing this stuff. Rather than being in my grow rooms. Can you just share with us a little bit experienced how.

[00:24:12] Jason: Have you ever actually let you spend more time with the plants rather than

[00:24:15] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): putting out fires? Oh, 100, 100. I mean, ironically, I spent four hours today doing metric work. Which is, taking six harvests that are 50 pound, 80 pound batches, and sorting them all out [00:24:30] by date and then tagging them to get ready for a trans it's.

[00:24:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): What it is like people don't see how much there actually is to a garden, or a facility or how much is going on. So all the free time that you can get is good. But I came in the same way thinking, man, I'm just going to be watching data graphs. Like I'm in the pro tools, I'm in the graphs. I'm like, I'm the first guy who was like, cool. I'll spend all this time.

[00:24:51] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): That's on the graph. That's what it takes. But that's just not the case. Going back to what I was saying about it being like apple. It's the visibility is there. When I work with [00:25:00] metric it's like you were saying, you're dealing with spreadsheets. You're, they're not intuitive. The way that you package out of a whole package is just not, it's done to get the job done, but it's not elegant. It's not pretty, it's not easy. Sometimes, you can like pound instead of.

[00:25:14] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Alan's online and all of a sudden you're not compliant. Roy, especially with the split graphs has just been amazing because you're, I'm able to sit there and be like click flower room one. Like flower room too. I mean, it's that fast and check a dry back. I can grab a dry back from the night before and [00:25:30] be like, oh, it's within two or 3% of what I'm trying to hit.

[00:25:32] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And there's a balance there. You can. It's never going to be perfect. No run is ever going to be perfect, but I can do my Roy checks and if the owners are watching, hopefully they're not worried about my time management, but I feel like I can do the Arroyo checks fairly quickly, and get that data that I'm looking for.

[00:25:48] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And then be back D leafing with my guys and helping set that bar there. Or cloning or transplanting or one of the other numerous things that has to go on. But I'd say it's like, 20% of my [00:26:00] time at most, when it comes to the actual cultivation side is spent, digesting graphs and doing that kind of thing. And most of it's just like check my dry backs to the night before, make sure my room temps are on point.

[00:26:12] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Look at that zoomed out week view and look and see, what that ECE is doing. See if I'm getting down below, like Seth really put me on that field capacity and like, am I going below 40 at this point? Am I going below 35 at this point? And making sure that doesn't happen. So it's [00:26:30] literally a click.

[00:26:31] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): A five minute review per room and then clicking the open sprinkler and whatever else I'm using to control that room to where it needs to be. And it's actually, again, it's. Given me a peace of mind. That I don't have to be worried that I'm doing the right or wrong thing all the time. And so I can do things, I'm making an informed decision. I'm not sitting there like, oh my God, what? Like, is this the right move? Is this not the right thing?

[00:26:54] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And to me, it's actually, like you said, it's given me more time to actually work with the plants or, do things like [00:27:00] this. It helped me level up to that point where I can take an hour and a half to, to do something. So

[00:27:05] Kaisha: I have a two part question for you, and then we're going to want to get to some lag questions as P YouTube is blowing up right now. So good to have you on it's exciting.

[00:27:13] Kaisha: I was, well, what is the size of your facility? Number one, and number two, let's talk about genetics. What's going on in that garden.

[00:27:20] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So size-wise. I'm terrible about square footage. I should know. Cause. The bragging point, I guess, right. But we have four 30 light flower rooms [00:27:30] give or take, and those four or five rooms have about 300, 350 plants in them on any given day.

[00:27:35] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And then we have a really tight little vege space. That's double tiered, where we keep our moms, our clones and our transplants. And that's kind of how we feed the whole facility. Genetics wise, we have some really cool partnerships. We're working with Khalifa, the dispensary and Wiz Khalifa and some strains like that.

[00:27:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): We're also working with cookies and lemonade. Owner's actually Blinken up with them right now. Making some moves happen. Genetics wise. Some of the stuff I'm really excited about the white runs, [00:28:00] we just pulled down, turned out phenomenal soup whenever I'm for me, it's like at this scale too, it's not like we're huge, but you can lose sight of the love for the plant and the product when it just becomes a job and a grind.

[00:28:10] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I get excited about smoking stuff that we're putting out. And that to me is like a pride that helps me come to work at really early in the morning and stay the extra hours and coming on the weekend. And. Taking pride in my stuff really helps to keep the, on those days where it's hard to wake up.

[00:28:25] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): But really excited about the sharp cake and we're bringing on some new Superbowl [00:28:30] crosses the homie mobile, chaotic Michigan. I've been working with him for. Time flies. It's almost been like three years, three and a half years. And actually helped get some of those cuts into, this garden before I even stepped on as the manager, I was working with the owner beforehand, and that was kind of how we built that trust for me to end up.

[00:28:48] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Running the facility. But yeah, I think what those guys are doing mitten master and Jay and being fans, I think have some crazy stuff coming out. So we definitely have our eyes on that. And then, yeah, just a lot of [00:29:00] sharp cake right now. And the Sherm cake is just killing it. It's so the nose on it, the color sheet.

[00:29:05] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): As much as I want to say, we're all trying to do crazy stuff and bring out the best genetic potential. I want stuff, that's gonna crush it regardless, and so having a genetic that can give you some tolerance and like, oh, we didn't quite knock that one out of the park, but it's still AAA.

[00:29:20] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I think is important, genetics play into a huge part of it running these high PPFD IEZ strategies. If you try to run that with an old school strain. It's just not [00:29:30] going to work for you. Some old school strains can tolerate it better than others. But I've just found it's like if you're Fino hunting, see junkie under LEDs using these kinds of strategies.

[00:29:40] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It's going to be a lot easier to adopt those kinds of strategies and run them and have success. Whereas if you're running a strain that was bred outdoors or under a single ended bowl, it's just not the same kind of game necessarily. But yeah, I feel like strains are just completely. It's funny, they're talking about, but not in the [00:30:00] sense of cultivation.

[00:30:00] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): More about like what's telling in the bag. Not what's growing and how, you see a lot of pictures and it's like, I compared to the pit bull game, everyone wants to be a pit bull breeder. Everyone wants to do any, you see these dogs in person and they can't move. And so easy to make something look really good on Instagram, but like, how does it actually perform in the garden?

[00:30:18] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Is huge.

[00:30:19] Seth: Yeah. Turn your girl lights off and get a really bad flash in your

[00:30:22] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): camera. Right. Oh, I 100. Yeah. Then you got to make your stuff look good for the gram too, I feel it, Jay is as a master of making that stuff [00:30:30] look phenomenal, but you can tell he's doing the job to, yeah.

[00:30:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So.

[00:30:35] Seth: And do itself to. Just capturing that. One thing I think is rad though, now that we're entering this world of Sensing and data aggregation and utilization like. We're talking about genetics. Now, when you run these things at this point in time You're kind of on the cutting edge of actually been able to say, how does this strain grow?

[00:30:52] Seth: Back in the day you get like, well, it's a 10 week strain to nine weeks trans an eight week. Yup. How long has it stretched for.

[00:30:59] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I don't [00:31:00] know, 100, 100 house.

[00:31:02] Seth: How did you grow up before? Oh, we had it in a 15 gallon pot.

[00:31:06] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah, it took. When it needed.

[00:31:08] Seth: Yeah. Yeah. This is in the backyard. Okay, that doesn't tell me anything. Like. I got no clue. Oh, it was 12 feet tall. Like.

[00:31:17] Seth: See your backyard. Cool. This is going, not in my backyard. So like, let's see what. What's different. And like, now you can actually tell people like, Hey, if you ran a strain, That you like the reckon with the breed and saying, Hey, we're [00:31:30] trialing this where we can help you is actually giving you real feedback. Like, Hey.

[00:31:34] Seth: We can actually show that this train really tolerates Hi-C Hi-C. And the lids on. Yep. 100. This is loving it. And we can also show you even like, Hey, we messed up on this run and we didn't stack it. And actually this one weirdly loved it more. Cool. 100. Was it the ISI? Was it the dry bags? What was it that got it all frosty.

[00:31:56] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yep. I think it used to be what genetics run really well [00:32:00] together. And what I've found is like I've made the mistake of putting two strains, like, oh, it's pink, rose and white runs. Let's put it on the same row. They're both runs right. And you're just like, one leans way more this way. And one leans may way more this way. And so you end up overfeeding one and under feeding the other and drying back too hard on one. And just struggling with that the whole time.

[00:32:19] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So Aurora has really helped me with that, where I'm like load up the strain in the zone. You know what I mean? Don't try to mix drains up unless you really know that those ones are going to work well together. But like you [00:32:30] said, you can see that data almost instantaneously, which is really cool.

[00:32:33] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I'd like to see on the genetic side, I'd just like to see more people reading for quality smoke. We're living in this world where back in the day, and that was the cool thing too. Is your experiment wasn't with a lab or what sold on the market? It was, what smoked good. And what you liked at the high.

[00:32:49] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And I think we're in a place where, you know, unfortunately a lot of it is high THC and purple and frosty and yielding three pounds light And that doesn't necessarily translate the [00:33:00] good quality smoke. And I see it in a lot of gardens where it feels like the strain catalog is. Like five gelato crosses, you know what I mean? It's like five.

[00:33:10] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Five share cake, just gas purple frost hybrid. Instead of having, where we had blue city, diesel, Jack career, Blackberry Kush, you have like five really unique Finos just because of what the market's demanding. And I don't think that's a grower thing as much as a hearken.

[00:33:25] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): For what people. Want to buy, but I would love to see the game moving back towards [00:33:30] TURPs and, having uniqueness in those culture bars too. Probably takes time. Honestly.

[00:33:37] Kaisha: That is straight facts. And that is what we are here for to help people grow that quality. We're going to get to these live questions. I'm going to, there's a lot of action on YouTube. So I'm Andy, take it away. And Dylan, please feel free to chime in. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:49] Mandy: Oh, my gosh, we just like cracked open the discussion of genetics. We need to do a whole episode just on that.

[00:33:54] Mandy: Thank you guys for your questions over on YouTube. Thanks for all the shout outs. We have people in Germany shouting out to us. We have Dr. [00:34:00] J. Iron armor. Everyone's giving us a great questions today. I want to go over real quick. Yeah. I want to go over a quick poll. So Dylan he likes to listen to music when he trims. And so we thought it would be a great question to ask. What's your favorite music to listen to when you trim? So the answer is where reggae, rap, rock, and country and reggae beat them all by 55%. So, yeah.

[00:34:19] Mandy: Thank you guys for answering that. I'll go ahead and get to y'all's questions. So iron armor wrote N. What's the max PPFD to shoot for in flower under HPS. My [00:34:30] veggies led I'm hitting around 600 PPFD before I moved them into flour and bumped them up to around 900 PPFD day. One of flowering.

[00:34:39] Mandy: Should I keep pushing PPFT until leaf temperatures exceed 82. A. 82 degrees or sea bleaching, unhappy plants. Do you have any invites?

[00:34:50] Seth: I think they nailed it right there. I mean, I wouldn't know. Yeah, I wouldn't call 82, my solid line. Sometimes with HPS, you can push those lead tents up higher to 85, 86. [00:35:00] But you're right on leave temps the way to go get a laser thermometer, play with your light height. Well, your PPFD.

[00:35:06] Seth: And also get that leave 10, see what they can take, because that is our limiting factor. Right? If we get too close, like if we're pushing 14, 1500 PPFD with an HPS. That light's probably close enough that we're physically torching the plant with radiant energy. Same reason your arms feel warm, but you don't actually get a melatonin sunburn response. You just get your rotation.

[00:35:26] Seth: I'm the HPS

[00:35:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): is. And then they stop. They sound like they're on it. With all the [00:35:30] data, especially I have two HBS rooms and two led rooms. Here, which is cool. You get to see all I'd add is like going back to the genetics, different genetics are going to take a hell of a lot more than others.

[00:35:41] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And you kind of have to find that balance between what is the very top of your canopy look like versus the middle and the lower, because you're going to sometimes get the tops unless you have perfect canopy management. And even then. I'm watching to see, like, maybe it's a little overlaid in that top, half a foot. [00:36:00] But once you get down into the mids and the lows, all of a sudden, everything's chunky and nice and turn it over. Good too. So I always call it like a light band.

[00:36:09] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And different lights are going to have a different usable light band, but just something to think about when you're trying to find that balance, push it a little hard. One round and then back off a little, the next one, and kind of see like Southwest saying where that happy balance is.

[00:36:21] Seth: Yeah, I think you nailed it there too. Dylan, on certain genetics. Like, Side-by-side bench by bench to the greenhouse. Next to bench in the greenhouse. You brought up blue [00:36:30] city diesel, we feed on it, threw some seeds, like. Five years ago. Well, we picked out an interesting one. We're like a baseball bat. They want to branch very much, but we'd end up going pretty high density.

[00:36:42] Seth: It was great is beautiful. Great bugs fracture. They production bench next to it. We have this whole pineapple cut that we like to run. That stuff. The prime bug was like probably about a foot deep in the canopy, everything that was cause it would stretch a lot. It was like, you're talking about those old school genetics. I just can't take as much.

[00:36:59] Seth: Yup. [00:37:00] And I went up there with her mom and like, holy shit. It's like only 84 up on these top colas and they're blowing up.

[00:37:07] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Kind of

[00:37:08] Seth: crazy foxtail, but then the bench over, you're like, oh, this plan just has a better growth habit. And actually we're getting better. PPFD where we're getting good nuggets on this plant. So we found like, Where, you know this one, genetic likes it. Okay. So the pineapple, we got to treat it way differently, apparently, and then.

[00:37:24] Seth: Right back to you're like, okay, well, we probably shouldn't ever run those two strains. In the same [00:37:30] run, especially for like, At the same time and putting them in the same production

[00:37:34] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): stream. I don't know where I picked up on this from. Cause it was so long ago, but it feels like. Modern day cultivars tend to have more consistency throughout the canopy, whereas that was not necessarily bred for as much back in the day. So back in the day, people would be like, yeah, the top canopy looks great, but it doesn't fill out down lower. And that was acceptable. I feel like strains, like starting with the original girl scout cookies and that kind of stuff really started to push that [00:38:00] density down lower into the plant and give you a more uniform product throughout that whole light band.

[00:38:05] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Whereas, you get into the older school strains and they just never were bred to do that.

[00:38:09] Seth: Yeah. And we're at a point too, with genetics, right? Where we kinda, it bounces back and forth. You got some people that demands high THC. Others it's super high yield. Now we're hitting the point where disease resistance that's coming in more. Now that we actually have people doing genetic

[00:38:22] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): research.

[00:38:22] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Thank goodness.

[00:38:23] Seth: Yeah. We give it a few years and I think we'll get that kind of a nice intermingling of all those traits we want. It's just. In [00:38:30] traditional plant breeding, a lot of times, like I worked in peas for a long time. That's about a six year track, even doing three generational advancements over the winter in the greenhouse. So like, yeah.

[00:38:39] Seth: It's not going to happen tomorrow. You're not going to get like your GMO that finishes in eight weeks and always puts out free and a half pounds tomorrow. Five 10 years. As long as the market keeps, some of those drains in play and those breeders can actually work on them for awhile. We're going to have a lot of the versions that we really want as growers.

[00:38:57] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Agreed. It's an intensive project [00:39:00] even to do it. In a half-ass way. Plans are amazing because you can grab, a thousand Finos first time and you can get that breeding done in six months. My parents, my mom especially has been in the horses and again, talking about dogs and the dog game.

[00:39:14] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You may put 10 grand into some pimples and it's going to take three years before you hook them up and put a litter down. And that's the only six, seven dogs to work with a horse it's a hundred thousand dollars, to put down one or two foals. And that could take four or five years. So [00:39:30] plans relative to that are extremely fast, but being able to do the work. And I think that's where Roy is huge too, is being able to take a thousand cultivars and narrow it down and collect that information and go forward with the right foot.

[00:39:43] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It's a huge amount of work and you have to have the background working with those genetics and those strains. To know what you're actually looking for. You can give someone the recipe, but if they haven't tasted good food, how it's supposed to be done, then how do you, what's the reference for, if you're trying to teach someone, [00:40:00] even something simple, like making a sourdough bread.

[00:40:02] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Something like that. It's three ingredients, but completely different how it can come across. And so.

[00:40:10] Seth: Sour down. Cause I've tried making my own sourdough starters a few times and there's no consistency there.

[00:40:15] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah. Seven years and I'm still like, I get lucky sometimes. Yeah.

[00:40:20] Mandy: Making sourdough is more of an art at this point, though. So I get that. Awesome. I armored, thank you for your question. And yeah, we're still getting a lot of questions over I need to, so I'm going to go over to Dr. [00:40:30] Jay's question.

[00:40:31] Mandy: I'm in one gallon, coco bags, three weeks in flower. For 600 HGL, H L G I'm sorry. My runoff PPM is at 2200. And pH is at 5.8. What ranges of PPM should the runoff be at this point? Do I need to stack AC or is this a good

[00:40:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): range?

[00:40:53] Seth: So if you're hitting, I mean, that's a little over four ISI we're looking at on a PPM 500 scale.

[00:40:58] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Thank you for the thank you for the [00:41:00] conversion. And I was like, I got to break out a scale over here. Well,

[00:41:02] Seth: but that's the thing, like what meter are you using? Is your setup?

[00:41:07] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): yeah.

[00:41:08] Seth: I would start there. Converted to ISI because we're talking about PPM. That's a little bit. That's something that I personally used to. Mix nutrients and dose. Like parts per million is something that is weighed or measured. ECC. We're talking about electrical conductivity with SOC.

[00:41:23] Seth: The Siemens. So the idea there is, we're not looking at. When we talk about PPM coming out of that runoff. We have no way. I mean, [00:41:30] if you have a sweet lab, you could go analyze it and see what's inside that runoff. But with your pH in your AC meter, you're not, If you get PPM NPH, that's not actually, you don't know what's in that. So we're just looking at storing.

[00:41:40] Seth: And the D levels and total. And personally.

[00:41:45] Seth: 2200. You're probably right in the mode, but at the same time, how much runoff are you getting? What's actually happening in the root zone because at 2200 runoff, if you are at. The lower in the root zone, but you're feeding a little higher, we can. It's [00:42:00] just not a good rapper. Represented representation of what's actually going on in the root zone.

[00:42:05] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yes.

[00:42:05] Jason: Why having the full picture with substrate sensors, knowing your fee DC, and then watching the dynamics of that ECC complaint at a huge park. No, run-off, isn't necessarily one of the easiest things to get a full picture because you're getting one quick snapshot. Obviously once it stops fronting off that red zone is going to be dynamically, typically rising in EDC.

[00:42:27] Jason: That, unless you're already on a little bit low ISI and the [00:42:30] plants are eating more than or faster, excuse me, then the salts can concentrate in

[00:42:34] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): that block. Yeah, I think input numbers are really important in that equation. What are you putting in? How big is the plan? How. Medium-sized can help, but being able to see that plan with that plan help would help be able to be a, Hey, steer it a little more this way or that it sounds like you're probably close to within range.

[00:42:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Only thing I'd add is doing Coco runoff tests. I'm generally looking more. It might be H than my ECE. Because my ECC has been [00:43:00] 6.0 off the charts. You know what I mean with plants and with an input of, 2.8 or 3.0, and as long as your pH is within range, usually you're going to be okay.

[00:43:09] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Doesn't always mean it. But I've just seen extremely high, easy numbers in Coco. We're planning for is still crushing it. I can hold a lot of stuff in there. So

[00:43:19] Seth: yeah. That's well comment on real quick, just to interrupt you guys. Sorry. When we are talking about ISI and runoff, do your time series tracking, even if you don't have the Roya.

[00:43:28] Seth: Because if you start it off, Loewy. [00:43:30] C and you haven't been able to build. You're not going to be able to go higher. You see your plants. Aren't adapting to that. But. If we can. If we have that time series. We can answer that question a lot more solid. As you run out and slowly ramping up to that, are we seeing like, whoa,

[00:43:44] Seth: Suddenly it's 2200 now. Is it time to react? Like those are the kinds of things we got to look at these values. Over

[00:43:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): the week. Yeah over a week. That's why, again, being able to look at that data in real time. Can be a lot more informative than just one spot test somewhere. [00:44:00] Yes. Totally agree with that.

[00:44:02] Kaisha: I find Michael dropped a comment here, Michael. You want to unmute yourself? You want me to just read it?

[00:44:08] Kaisha: Yeah, let me go ahead and read it. He wrote leads. Testing helps clarify the gap between feed, input and run off measurements. It's a little extra clarification there. I appreciate that. Yep.

[00:44:17] Mandy: And Dr. Jay came back with a little bit of clarification. 4.2 ISI. And then he says, I plan on getting the sensor soon. So yeah, if you guys have any other feedback,

[00:44:27] Seth: I think he's going to be stoked to be watching what's going on [00:44:30] in the Reed's zone compared to just run off and actually be able to like, Make decisions based on real data, rather than being

[00:44:36] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): like.

[00:44:38] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It sounds like he's ready. It sounds like you're ready for.

[00:44:42] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I'm like people have so much already have a lot of info, and that's the kind of people that I think can run with it. You have a healthy plant. Sure. But how do you take it to the next level? Rather than just trying to put out fires all the time. So yeah. There's I appreciated the input to Michael.

[00:44:56] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah.

[00:44:56] Mandy: Awesome. So yeah, we're going to go on to our next question, Johnson in this [00:45:00] one. In bed. Is it possible for a plant to be chunking through a full ECC point in a

[00:45:05] Seth: day? In veggies, I'm guessing that means eating through a Felicie point. And the answer is absolutely. Yes.

[00:45:14] Seth: I'm going down 500 PPM in a day is, I mean, especially if we're starting this big. And we're growing to this big and we've, put on 10 times the amount of biomass that plants needs for nutrition are going to go up rapidly. No, that's why I always stress to people. Like you [00:45:30] want to try to get it up to close to a 40 CC.

[00:45:32] Seth: At your wetness before moving into flower. Cause otherwise, right back to that time series thing, If you can't build it up, you're not going to be able to control that. Osmotics stress. And if you can't do that, You might as well stay lower. You see. Learn your lights a little bit and work with the

[00:45:47] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): numbers you have.

[00:45:49] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I think that's a great point too. One thing I noticed when implementing strategies, where a lot of people struggle and I'm roasting my plants or this strategy is working or 3.0 is working. [00:46:00] It's like over a clone, if we take a clone out of a dome and it's a healthy clone and you stick it in that four, it says.

[00:46:07] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): That initial dry back period is huge. And then every single couple days after you start P ones, which might be. Four or five, six days, depending on what you're transplanting into every day that need is changing dramatically. Especially at that stage, you might have a plan. That needs. That needs

[00:46:25] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You know, day one and then P twos. Spree. Three days later. And the difference between [00:46:30] that can be a healthy and a not healthy plan. Whereas if you just have a static strategy that can actually kind of hurt you sometimes. Yeah, one thing I always

[00:46:38] Seth: like to stress to people is.

[00:46:42] Seth: Most, agrinomic science. We have going up to this point. It all happened. Experimentally. People look, we obtained all these values, not by like going to a lab and analyzing plant tissue and saying this or that we. Have a lot of research that shows how, these nutrients get into the plants and everything that makes it up. So it's like, [00:47:00]

[00:47:00] Seth: It's not super complicated at this blind. It's not magic. You. And you shouldn't rule out the fact that you want to, It says, take pictures. Take pictures. So you have a visual analysis you still have to, at the end of the day, interpret what a healthy plan is. We don't have a camera to aim at your plants.

[00:47:16] Seth: And tell you that they look like garbage yet. You still got to look at the image and interpret it. So

[00:47:22] Jason: though there are some apps out there where you can take a picture of an ink will tell you what the pot plant.

[00:47:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I've seen that ad on Instagram. [00:47:30]

[00:47:31] Seth: I hope your girl, right.

[00:47:32] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): You're growing a strain from 1992 with 3.5. These strategies.

[00:47:38] Mandy: Whoa, has the tech really gone that far? That's really cool. You guys are just pulling my leg. Awesome. Thank you for the question, John. We also have a couple more questions. So I'm going to try to get those through those really quick. The town wrote in, what do you think of under canopy light instead of lollipopping.

[00:47:54] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Oh, what do you think? So.

[00:47:56] Seth: Ah, well, you don't have chloroplasts on the bottom of your leaves. [00:48:00]

[00:48:02] Seth: I mean. You're probably not going to get a whole lot of benefit from doing that versus proper pruning techniques and a better light source, potentially. If that's where you're at with it. Inner canopy lighting has been shown to be useful in some places. So instead of it being like down by your pods,

[00:48:18] Seth: It's actually up in your canopy. But that also brings about a whole new list of logistical challenges. Right now. We've got these light bars in between our layers of trellis. We have to work around when we're working on the plants. So. [00:48:30] Can it be helpful? Yes. But I think it's kind of an over complicated system to deal with something that.

[00:48:35] Seth: Has a better solution. It's if you're to ask me about CO2 in a very old school greenhouse, that's not sealed up and it's venting constantly. Can we put drip tape out there and get it to the plants? Maybe. Is it worth it to do it in the middle of summer when the fans are just on all day?

[00:48:52] Seth: Probably not.

[00:48:53] Jason: And if this is kind of a question that you're asking at your facility, Make sure that you're analyzing, are you doing proper

[00:48:59] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): crop? [00:49:00] Or canopy management practices,

[00:49:01] Jason: right. Like, what is the goal here? Do. W want to try and reduce our daily thing labor? Well, maybe it's a cost.

[00:49:09] Jason: Option for you. But you really have to wait what. What complexity gets introduced, just like Seth was saying. And what's the goal here? We just trying to produce more a buds down lower. W

[00:49:18] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): what are

[00:49:19] Seth: you trying to get to? Yeah. And then as we hit, commodity prices across the board, like not, everyone's dropping to 500 bucks a pound right now.

[00:49:26] Seth: Like, the industry's marching more towards the value of a product being [00:49:30] based, I mean, obviously your branding and your marketing, but also on its input value. Or input costs. That's agriculture in general. So. How many times are you touching the plant? I think we've talked about that on here before, like I had a lettuce, like, man, you touch it twice and he lost money.

[00:49:43] Seth: Yep. No we're heading down that route where it's, if you're, what's better to vet your plants in an appropriate amount of time and nail your plant density or go back in and super crop because that's stupid cropping for a whole room might cost you two grand herb shot. When you have a couple people that,

[00:49:57] Seth: If you have five people in a room to accomplish a task in a day [00:50:00] that is

[00:50:00] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): not cheap.

[00:50:02] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): I tend to be really slow to adopt new technology. I think there's a balance there, especially you guys are, cutting edge. Data technology. But I think until I see a lot of other people crushing it and not just like, oh, there's some person who's a cool looking person on Instagram.

[00:50:20] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Crushing it out with a new hype product, and I'm not saying that's what the under canopy lighting is. I think it goes back to the strains and how they're bred and how they're going to fill out regardless as well. But I [00:50:30] tend to see, like, I don't want to bring a strain into my garden unless I see three or four people really knocking it out of the park and not just like Instagram shots, like what does that actual plant growing? Like, what does it look like? Do I know this person.

[00:50:43] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): And I would kind of treat a new product like that the same, I think. Maybe to give it two years and we'll see if those products really continue to, you know what I mean? Oh, hold their weight. Not saying that they may, they might not work some strange, you might love that. I don't want to put Christmas lights in my canopies. They're kind of [00:51:00] sticky.

[00:51:01] Seth: Yeah. And that's a good point too. Just light maintenance down the road, whether or not you break them. During the growth cycle. They're going to be absolutely sticking filthy pretty quickly. And that's just another piece of equipment that you do have to clean at the end of the day.

[00:51:15] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah.

[00:51:16] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): No, our trainees look clean about. Most of the way through the cycle, but there's a reason we scrubbed. Trey's really good at that.

[00:51:22] Seth: Your walls, different things that people might like really have to scrub that like, Yes, please just go touch it.

[00:51:29] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Glorified [00:51:30] janitor thing is true. You know what I mean? It's like, that's at the end of the day, if your facility is clean, your plants are clean. It's cause you're in there.

[00:51:36] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Cleaning.. Every day. But I, my crew here is amazing. They mopped the floor every day on the way out and it just smells clean. You know what I mean? And to me it's like, even if it doesn't need to be mom that's part of like taking pride in what you're doing that translates to all of the aspects of the grow and the grows that I step into that need the most help. 10 tab boxes, shit piled up in every room.

[00:51:58] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): They're not [00:52:00] cleanable. Sussed on the bulbs.

[00:52:03] Kaisha: I feel coasted here. Use your light meter to find the bottom threshold for healthy blood breath. Stop cleaning up where the light starts being strong enough.

[00:52:12] Kaisha: Thank you for that. There we go.

[00:52:14] Mandy: Discussion. Yeah. We have one more question over there on YouTube. So Diane wrote in. What's the difference between pulsing irrigation events and ones where you just go 30 minutes straight feeding.

[00:52:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): So.

[00:52:28] Jason: Drip rate would be [00:52:30] probably the first thing that I talk about when we look at that. I think I've used my sponge analogy probably way too many times, but if we're dripping too fast we're going to have some irrigation channeling going through there. Really, what we want to do is drip no faster than the capillary effect of the media can catch up to homogenize our water content and salt concentration in the substrate.

[00:52:51] Jason: So that being said, if we're on the higher flow rate side of things, we definitely want to pulse those for pretty quick shots and give some delay. The [00:53:00] capillary effect to catch up with how much water we're adding into the substrate before we hit runoff? No. Vice versa. If you've got a really low flow rate, you can stretch your irrigations.

[00:53:09] Jason: I probably still wouldn't go to like a 30 minute. No, usually five or six minutes is as long as I would ever go, even with a really slow river.

[00:53:16] Seth: Yeah. Typically 30, if you're flowing, correctly for that long, we're really looking at some serious channeling, unless you have a extremely low flow rate, like 0.3

[00:53:25] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): gallon.

[00:53:26] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Yeah, something like that

[00:53:27] Seth: in, in a bed or something, you a massive pot [00:53:30] because yeah. To go back to that in a good way to visualize it. Honestly, I'll use a similar thing to Jason here on the sponge analogy. You'll get half your sponge wet. And see how long you gotta wait until the water makes it to the other end of the sponge.

[00:53:41] Seth: And that should give you an idea of like what we're kind of dealing with here. And it's all physics, there's nothing. I mean. Maybe you could put a wedding agent in there which would be a waste of money to try to make that faster, but then she walked

[00:53:52] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): out. For the first couple of irrigators. Yeah.

[00:53:55] Seth: And it's just the media that like that's a physical reality. We're dealing with. It's kinda like asking if like, [00:54:00] Hey, are we ever going to hit 10 pounds of life? Well, not with the current genetics and the technology that we have. Cause that's too much biomass in too small of a space. We can't.

[00:54:09] Seth: We don't have efficiency or efficient machines really deal with that level of biomass in that small space where you had a break over point where now you're spending so much money to try to maintain the environment that it's not even worth doing anymore.

[00:54:22] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): When you, you can see it in practice too. Like if you come from a place where your hand watering soil or hand water aid,

[00:54:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Coco. And you come in with your, hand watering [00:54:30] wand or however you can get it to run down the sides immediately and get runoff out of the side of a pot, especially when it's sucked in and dry. Whereas if you soak it for a couple seconds, let it absorb. Give it a second. I mean, we used to do that when you do one past and the whole garden crawling around on your hands and knees, and then you go and do another pass. You don't just water every single one.

[00:54:50] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): To try to get that actual absorption going on which plays a lot of parts. And i've found even if you're not crop steering the being able to wet up fully with a p [00:55:00] one gives you a lot of control in that first stage whether you need to push more runoff at that point or not you can stack and then getting to that point where you have Gives you that control to hit your drive back targets for the next day so that's more of like pulsing over time but you know it's definitely you can see that in action even if you're just having laundry. Let's Nailing it we'd never

[00:55:23] Jason: want to have runoff tower at field capacity

[00:55:27] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Short and sweet

[00:55:28] Mandy: and love that thank you diane for your question [00:55:30] And thanks to everyone over on youtube oh my gosh You've got so many shout outs i forgot you guys there's so many shout outs. These are Roy cats are the real deal Zero bro. bro. knowledge oh we love hearing that dr J said i've watched all the office hours oh wow yeah me too many times over so yeah i think that is all the questions we can get to on youtube so i'm going to pass it back to you

[00:55:47] Kaisha: geisha. Amazing thank you mandy thank you youtube dylan thank you so much for coming on the show we like to ask growers before we sign off just any words of advice This industry has been through a lot so [00:56:00] just something you want to tell the folks that are out there and want to hear what you have to say

[00:56:05] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): It sticks data until you come up And if you're and if you're passionate about this then the hard parts won't be as hard i don't think i could do this if i didn't really have a passion for the plants and MLO for it a lot of people i see get in and it's just like they think it's going to be growing plants it's all fun and it's like it's hard work and it's One thing that stood out to me is like Fail faster it's like you're going to learn from your losses you're [00:56:30] going to learn from those lessons and so. Don't be set back don't be if you mess up somewhere if you don't like if you're uncomfortable that's where you're growing the most so don't shy away from those kinds of things You know what i mean it doesn't mean burn your whole garden down by spraying it. Too high of a spray dilution but just don't feel like when you're failing that you're actually failing it's an opportunity to learn so yeah stay down until you come up and. and keep passionate for the plants alive and i think there's a space for everyone if you really are down to put in work And work with other really good people like all you guys [00:57:00] It's been a, it's been a pleasure and i've learned a lot on this platform and talking with seth and being able to come through that knowledge so i appreciate you guys We appreciate you

[00:57:09] Kaisha: Dylan. thank you for just sharing your experience and your knowledge we learn from you it's really cool to have you on you may need to come back again i'll just say that so thank you again for being on the show seth and jason once again thank you for dropping the knowledge Mandy producer chris couldn't do this without y'all. thank you so much All right. well thank you for everybody for joining us today on our office hours [00:57:30] we do this every thursday and the best way to get answers is from that from the experts is to join us live to learn more about roy clicking the link in the chat we'll get you a demo with one of our experts They'll tell you all about how it can be used to improve your cultivation production operation and then as always let us know if there's a topic you'd like covered on the future office hours session post questions anytime via the Roy. I feel free to drop them in the chat send us an email to support.aroya@metergroup.com. send us a dm over instagram Social club linkedin we are on all the socials we [00:58:00] record every session we'll email everyone in attendance a link to today's discussion it'll also be on the array youtube channel like subscribing And share while you're there and if you find these conversations helpful please do spread the word thanks everybody

[00:58:13] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Phoenix Thanks guys

[00:58:16] Seth: Yeah thanks for coming on doing Really appreciate it

[00:58:18] Dylan (Grizzly Farms PDX): Pleasure always breathing[00:58:30]